Posted on Aug 14, 2021
Vietnam shadow hangs over Biden decision on Afghanistan
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Posted in these groups: 
Joe Biden
Office of the President (POTUS)
Afghanistan
Vietnam War
Military History
Joe Biden Office of the President (POTUS) Afghanistan Vietnam War Military History
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 32
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Looks familiar to a lot of folks...only this one was even more poorly planned.
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It was always going to be a sh!t show. We either prop up Afghanistan for near perpetuity or we cut bait. We just can't solve the world's problems on our own and we shouldn't make the mistake of thinking we can.
This is in contrast to places like Israel and what I believe the Kurds could have become. Those we can support financially and with light military support because their underlying populace and government were stable and had the will to exist. That just isn't true of the current Afghan government and I don't know if any amount of time where we stayed there would change that.
In the future for Afghanistan if terrorist actions originate from there we do what we should have done in the first place. Exerted just enough military pressure so they regret it and leave with the message, "don't make us come back."
This is in contrast to places like Israel and what I believe the Kurds could have become. Those we can support financially and with light military support because their underlying populace and government were stable and had the will to exist. That just isn't true of the current Afghan government and I don't know if any amount of time where we stayed there would change that.
In the future for Afghanistan if terrorist actions originate from there we do what we should have done in the first place. Exerted just enough military pressure so they regret it and leave with the message, "don't make us come back."
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Conservatives- "We are not the world police"
Conservatives- "Bring our troops home"
Conservatives- "Nuke Afghanistan into Oblivion"
Biden brings troops home and get us out of a 20 year failure
Conservatives- "Biden is an idiot...what about the women and children"
Conservatives- "Bring our troops home"
Conservatives- "Nuke Afghanistan into Oblivion"
Biden brings troops home and get us out of a 20 year failure
Conservatives- "Biden is an idiot...what about the women and children"
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Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin
And you're certainly wearing it. How many points do you think you scored? You invoked Trump for the blame (of course), Rationalized for Biden (because he's a Democrat with balls right?), wiped your hands of Afghanistan (screw them right?)... What's that worth? Have a great day 1SG.
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1SG (Join to see)
Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin - No, Biden is in the seat and botched the withdrawal. I never said screw them but how many more Soldiers and Billions of dollars do you want wasted. There was never an end game. No clear mission or priorities. Have a great day Major. And lets not pretend there isn't plenty of blame to go around.
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Maj Kevin "Mac" McLaughlin
I don't pretend there isn't blame, I haven't pretended, and you'd know this if you read my other posts on your other thread. Obama, Trump, Biden... All to blame. Hell, even Bush giving into the pressure of adding more troops in Afghanistan in 2003-06 probably was not the best choice. Much of this is hindsight but what Biden did was wrong. I also absolutely disagree that this was an unnecessary campaign and that it had no clear mission/priorities. This is simply untrue! The objective after we beat Al Qaeda and removed the enabling Taliban from power was to build a peaceful, self sustaining Afghan government and military. This is not the first country we've had to do this for either after defeating them in war.
Now, are their gov/mil leaders to blame as well? Absolutely! I spent a significant portion of my year long deployment trying to deal with them to appropriately supply the Afghan units I supported. I had to get Americans in Kabul to escort them through the warehouses to verify where the equipment was or what happened to it. We knew there was corruption going on and through persistence we managed to hold them accountable for it. We eventually started discovering that in 2014 the best approach was to retire the corrupt senior leaders and allow the younger ones to take control. Those younger leaders had the motivation, more integrity, and the skill set to do the job, but were hampered by senior leaders every step of the way. As we started removing the corrupt leadership from power and laid a roadmap of three years to get them to a significant evolution, the administration denied Gen Dunford's recommendations and we started pulling out in 2014. That marked the point when the advisor mission was effectively done. That was a mistake.
You ask how much more should we sacrifice and my answer to that would have been to stop asking. It was the wrong question and it has been since some of the American people started asking it as far back as 2003. All it did was project to the Taliban that we weren't committed. The better question would be how do we move forward from the mistakes and fix them? This pull out has only made things worse, and if you think we're going to save lives and money by doing so, how much more will it cost when we're forced to return?
Now, are their gov/mil leaders to blame as well? Absolutely! I spent a significant portion of my year long deployment trying to deal with them to appropriately supply the Afghan units I supported. I had to get Americans in Kabul to escort them through the warehouses to verify where the equipment was or what happened to it. We knew there was corruption going on and through persistence we managed to hold them accountable for it. We eventually started discovering that in 2014 the best approach was to retire the corrupt senior leaders and allow the younger ones to take control. Those younger leaders had the motivation, more integrity, and the skill set to do the job, but were hampered by senior leaders every step of the way. As we started removing the corrupt leadership from power and laid a roadmap of three years to get them to a significant evolution, the administration denied Gen Dunford's recommendations and we started pulling out in 2014. That marked the point when the advisor mission was effectively done. That was a mistake.
You ask how much more should we sacrifice and my answer to that would have been to stop asking. It was the wrong question and it has been since some of the American people started asking it as far back as 2003. All it did was project to the Taliban that we weren't committed. The better question would be how do we move forward from the mistakes and fix them? This pull out has only made things worse, and if you think we're going to save lives and money by doing so, how much more will it cost when we're forced to return?
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