Posted on Jul 3, 2014
What grinds your gears? Promotions based off college, not job performance?
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Posted 10 y ago
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1SG I did some analysis after the last SFC board via FMS web, and more NCOs without degrees were promoted than those with.
I hear you though, every single time I have ever talked to a 1SG, SGM, CSM about promotions, the first thing I hear is college followed by PT then GT score. While I agree that college does look good, it is an indicator of very little for promotion in my opinion. We are evaluated for promotion based off two major things really, 1) past performance 2) Future potential to serve the Army in the next higher grade. I can tell you that I made the last MSG list and I do not have a degree. I do have some college listed on my ERB but no degree completed.
I hear you though, every single time I have ever talked to a 1SG, SGM, CSM about promotions, the first thing I hear is college followed by PT then GT score. While I agree that college does look good, it is an indicator of very little for promotion in my opinion. We are evaluated for promotion based off two major things really, 1) past performance 2) Future potential to serve the Army in the next higher grade. I can tell you that I made the last MSG list and I do not have a degree. I do have some college listed on my ERB but no degree completed.
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MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca
I'll second that! A college degree may open doors in both the civilian and military worlds (and who really decided that?) but what does it really mean? IMHO it says nothing more than, "you have the maturity and propensity to learn" Sh!t, I knew that when I left high school, and didn't feel I needed a $12K (in 1990 dollars) second opinion.
I got my degree in computer science. Other than the "theory" type of courses, I'd say 75% of my major related courses were based on technology that is now far outdated. Microsoft Windows as we know it was still a Bill Gates pipe dream at that time.
I see it a lot today, people with tons of street/technical knowledge - subject matter experts in their fields who could run circles around freshly minted college grads - that are held up because they didn't "pay to play" for that piece of paper.
Like 2LT-dom, you come out of college book smart but not much else. You still need job experience to prove your worth and to me, that is what really counts where the rubber meets the road.
I got my degree in computer science. Other than the "theory" type of courses, I'd say 75% of my major related courses were based on technology that is now far outdated. Microsoft Windows as we know it was still a Bill Gates pipe dream at that time.
I see it a lot today, people with tons of street/technical knowledge - subject matter experts in their fields who could run circles around freshly minted college grads - that are held up because they didn't "pay to play" for that piece of paper.
Like 2LT-dom, you come out of college book smart but not much else. You still need job experience to prove your worth and to me, that is what really counts where the rubber meets the road.
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Regardless of where you are in the world these days, the military started considering education as an indicator of motivation and being a part of the team. Profession of Arms and being all you can be kind of insinuates getting a little more than a GED or HS Diploma. I counsel education at all levels and based on the "OLD SCHOOL" it was a major promotion point thing for SGT and SSG. I initially went to school strictly for one thing, PROMOTION POINTS! That would have allowed me to make SFC easier, then so be it, but one who merely does what has to be done for the sake of just doing the minimum and collecting a check should not be rewarded for that type of mentality. Education never hurt anyone. I suspect the numbers reported about degree versus non-degree is because of the staggering numbers without a degree.
Warrant Officer selection and my own personal career has benefited from gaining a degree. I never realized when I selfishly went to school ONLY for POINTS that it would end up with so many rewarding events. The selection to CW5 with a 8% selection rate was attributed to having that damn degree, BUT also with past performance and potential being driving factors! Just so happens that having the degree is something the Army wants you to do now. Support the command and team, go get some for you, it doesn't hurt!
Warrant Officer selection and my own personal career has benefited from gaining a degree. I never realized when I selfishly went to school ONLY for POINTS that it would end up with so many rewarding events. The selection to CW5 with a 8% selection rate was attributed to having that damn degree, BUT also with past performance and potential being driving factors! Just so happens that having the degree is something the Army wants you to do now. Support the command and team, go get some for you, it doesn't hurt!
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A little confused by this question. Are you talking about Soldiers joining the ranks as E4 straight from basic because he/she has a degree? I don't see an issue with it. They spent the time and energy required to earn that degree so why not start they a little higher than someone like me who joined as a young kid straight out of high school.
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1SG Alan Bailey
No, I have no problem with those, I have seen to many SSG, & SFC get promoted based off them going to college. Dont get me wrong I feel college is good, but I feel you should be able to do your job. We need to bring back SQT and that needs to be part of the promotion system.
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