Posted on Sep 1, 2015
What do you think the final answer will be to Congress? "Women in Combat: Silver Stars, Combat Action Badges and Casualties."
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In the coming weeks, the service chiefs will likely cite reams of data to support their positions on whether to lift restrictions on women serving in combat jobs.
A couple of the statistics will be hard to miss: More than 9,000 female troops have earned Combat Action Badges during modern combat operations, including those in Iraq and Afghanistan, and hundreds more have earned valor awards, including the Silver Star, the Army's third-highest valor award.
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/08/31/women-in-combat-silver-stars-combat-action-badges-casualties.html
A couple of the statistics will be hard to miss: More than 9,000 female troops have earned Combat Action Badges during modern combat operations, including those in Iraq and Afghanistan, and hundreds more have earned valor awards, including the Silver Star, the Army's third-highest valor award.
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/08/31/women-in-combat-silver-stars-combat-action-badges-casualties.html
Women in the Military
Infantryman
DoD
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 8
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COL Charles Williams - My opinion is that, right or wrong, it is going to happen. That train has already left the station and will not be called back.
What actually needs to happen now, if people really care about "equality", is that females should now have to register for the draft and no longer have any "exemptions" from anything for any reason because of their gender. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You should not be able to pick and choose what you want to be equal in and what you don't.
What actually needs to happen now, if people really care about "equality", is that females should now have to register for the draft and no longer have any "exemptions" from anything for any reason because of their gender. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You should not be able to pick and choose what you want to be equal in and what you don't.
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SFC Stephen King
I concur COL Jean (John) F. B. We need to accept the fact it is going to happen. We also need to begin to look at standards in all aspects of training and consider a merge of the two (Male and Female) as we look towards transgender troops being recognized
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
SFC Stephen King - My fear is that, when/if you merge all aspects of training, duty, etc., the standards will be reduced to accommodate the weakest link, which will result in an overall reduction in the effectiveness of the military.
We have lost to the "political correctness" crowd... There is absolutely nothing wrong with exclusion of people because of sex/gender, when not doing so causes degradation of the effectiveness of the military. Unfortunately, we have crossed that bridge and there is no going back.
Certainly, I realize there are some females who could perform better than some males. There are always exceptions, but you don't make wholesale changes based on the exceptions.
The females in the Military Police Corps have proven themselves to be every much as effective as the males in most situations and integrating them into the MP Corps was a good thing. Has it created problems in field/tactical situations? Absolutely, but not to the point of being unmanageable... and that is primarily because of the quality of the women and the quality of the leadership, as well as the professionalism and acceptance of the men and women of the MP Corps. Would the same be true in the Infantry, for example, when they are engaged in long-term tactical situations away from any amenities? How will that impact operations? Time will tell, I guess.
The military, long ago, became a testing ground for social experimentation. Regardless what people say, the result has been a degradation of the military.
We have lost to the "political correctness" crowd... There is absolutely nothing wrong with exclusion of people because of sex/gender, when not doing so causes degradation of the effectiveness of the military. Unfortunately, we have crossed that bridge and there is no going back.
Certainly, I realize there are some females who could perform better than some males. There are always exceptions, but you don't make wholesale changes based on the exceptions.
The females in the Military Police Corps have proven themselves to be every much as effective as the males in most situations and integrating them into the MP Corps was a good thing. Has it created problems in field/tactical situations? Absolutely, but not to the point of being unmanageable... and that is primarily because of the quality of the women and the quality of the leadership, as well as the professionalism and acceptance of the men and women of the MP Corps. Would the same be true in the Infantry, for example, when they are engaged in long-term tactical situations away from any amenities? How will that impact operations? Time will tell, I guess.
The military, long ago, became a testing ground for social experimentation. Regardless what people say, the result has been a degradation of the military.
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SFC Stephen King
COL Jean (John) F. B. Sir you have captured what I am thinking. PC has become the norm in the military and we are the degrading in some aspects of training. Instead of lowering enlistment standards it should be harder to enlist a privilege to serve.
WE FEW, WE HAPPY FEW, WE BAND OF BROTHERS [AND SISTERS, TO ALTER THE FAMOUS LINE SOMEWHAT]
WE FEW, WE HAPPY FEW, WE BAND OF BROTHERS [AND SISTERS, TO ALTER THE FAMOUS LINE SOMEWHAT]
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This train started back in Gulf 1. It's been speeding up ever since.
The USMC has been putting ALL Marines through the School of Infantry (ITB/MCT) and the TBS since 1995~.
Per the article: "When the service chiefs send their findings to Carter late next month, Marine Gen. Joseph Dunford will be the first to report and the most closely watched. The Marines are considered by some the most tradition-bound and resistant to change of the services."
For us, the "tradition" is Marines go through Combat Training. We don't have two flavors of Marines. Just one.
Marine Corps Gen. Thomas Holcomb who authorized the mobilization of women into the Corps on February 13, 1943, was emphatic that the Women Marine reservists were not to be ascribed any sort of nickname. In a March 1944 issue of Life magazine, he announced, “They are Marines. They don't have a nickname and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere at a Marine post. They inherit the traditions of Marines. They are Marines.”
Each time this gender divide issue comes up, I get angry. I realize there are valid data points, including physiological differences, etc. However, every single PERSON who joins, in the modern era of the All Volunteer Force does so of their own free will. We all know the risks going in. I weighed 108 pounds and was 5'6" when I joined and not one person told me I couldn't cut it. If that isn't a physiological disadvantage on par with what the average female has, I don't know what is.
We're the most capable warfighting force on the planet, and if anyone wants to serve. Let them. If they can make the cut to get through the schools, let them. After professional sports, we're the closest thing left to a meritocracy there is. Those who can't cut it, won't make it. Those who can, will excel. We need to get over which bathroom they use.
COL Charles Williams Thank you for sharing the article. It's a good read!
The USMC has been putting ALL Marines through the School of Infantry (ITB/MCT) and the TBS since 1995~.
Per the article: "When the service chiefs send their findings to Carter late next month, Marine Gen. Joseph Dunford will be the first to report and the most closely watched. The Marines are considered by some the most tradition-bound and resistant to change of the services."
For us, the "tradition" is Marines go through Combat Training. We don't have two flavors of Marines. Just one.
Marine Corps Gen. Thomas Holcomb who authorized the mobilization of women into the Corps on February 13, 1943, was emphatic that the Women Marine reservists were not to be ascribed any sort of nickname. In a March 1944 issue of Life magazine, he announced, “They are Marines. They don't have a nickname and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere at a Marine post. They inherit the traditions of Marines. They are Marines.”
Each time this gender divide issue comes up, I get angry. I realize there are valid data points, including physiological differences, etc. However, every single PERSON who joins, in the modern era of the All Volunteer Force does so of their own free will. We all know the risks going in. I weighed 108 pounds and was 5'6" when I joined and not one person told me I couldn't cut it. If that isn't a physiological disadvantage on par with what the average female has, I don't know what is.
We're the most capable warfighting force on the planet, and if anyone wants to serve. Let them. If they can make the cut to get through the schools, let them. After professional sports, we're the closest thing left to a meritocracy there is. Those who can't cut it, won't make it. Those who can, will excel. We need to get over which bathroom they use.
COL Charles Williams Thank you for sharing the article. It's a good read!
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SGT Bryon Sergent
Well other than wives exploding the jealousy rating out the roof, I have deployed with some very capable and very intelligent females. They all can't do Infantry but have no problem with it. I am no longer Infantry but I can see a lot of issues with the females in an infantry unit. I see the sexual assault going up. Just MHO.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
SGT Bryon Sergent -I don't think we'll see an increase, just for the fact of:
Can you imagine the rainof hell if had found out if someone had messed with someone in you team or squad?
Can you imagine the rainof hell if had found out if someone had messed with someone in you team or squad?
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SGT Bryon Sergent
We were so tight nit that we did things together. I'm not saying that there would be group assaults. its just even the married guys would go out to the bar some nights and there wives where good with it because it is all guys. Now throw that female into the mix. there are going to be trouble in the home front an I predict divorces going up. Your going to the field for 30 days and no contact with me(wife) and there is going to be a woman there? Can see this going bad.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
SGT Bryon Sergent - we already have that at Service level though. The only thing that is changing is CA units. CS & CSS already do this. USMC has had women at Arty RGTs since mid/late 90s. We've had them at wing/log since same time frame.
All we are doing is adding it to our smallest component.
All we are doing is adding it to our smallest component.
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COL Charles Williams,
Sir, I believe that we will see a rise in women standing shoulder to shoulder with their male peers in combat; however, if we have a sudden rise in female casualties I think we may encur the wrath of some groups out there that may claim that we are sending our female troops out there to die.
Sir, I believe that we will see a rise in women standing shoulder to shoulder with their male peers in combat; however, if we have a sudden rise in female casualties I think we may encur the wrath of some groups out there that may claim that we are sending our female troops out there to die.
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