Posted on Aug 23, 2014
Addressing a MSG, SFC & SSG as “Sergeant.” Does anyone else think this is disrespectful?
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I feel as if I’m speaking to a Master Sergeant, Sergeant First Class or Staff Sergeant, they need to be addressed as their full rank and not “Sergeant.”
Customs and Courtesies
Respect
Disrespect
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 123
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Per regulation, it is correct and addressing them by their full rank is a no go. How could that possibly be disrespectful? Never mind it would be obnoxious - "Yes, Sergeant First Class. No, Sergeant First Class. Get a shorter title, Sergeant First Class."
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I've never understood that about the Army. Why wouldn't you call them the rank they've earned?
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Well flip this over to the commissioned side. I'd like to see someone address a full Colonel as "officer". The 'they're all officers' argument does not apply. The Army should take a note from the Marines on this one. Not saying everything the Marines do is the right way, but with rank there also comes increased responsibility and thus are due commensurate respect. When deployed it should be the NCO's call.
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1LT William Clardy
SPC David S., to adjust your example, when was the last time you addressed a lieutenant colonel by any longer title than "colonel"?
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SPC David S.
Good point sir. However when there was a full bird with in ear shot I made sure that I did address a LTC as such. Being that I was around the TOC our BN CO and his buddies would hang out. It wasn't uncommon to have the COL, other COL's and LTC's , and our XO MAJ all around. But you are correct as I always addressed my father's friend as Colonel Lowe when he has a LTC or later when he was a full bird.
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SFC (Join to see)
Certainly no LTC minds the title COL as it exceeds his rank and station, thus as a term of respect it achieves a higher standard of courtesy. This also makes the point that a higher standard should be encouraged, if not perhaps mandated, as opposed to settling for merely the "standard" or regulation's (minimalist) requirements.
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For me, I find this topic kind of funny. The reason I say that is because this is not a PV1 asking this question. It's an NCO. This question could have been avoided by looking at the Army Values and then reading the regulation.
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In the Navy everyone E4-E6 is a petty officer. No matter who you are, if you don't know person's rating (MOS), you say 'Petty Officer'. If you do, you call by abbreviation and number.
In my case, I'm a master at arms 1st class, equivalent to Army SSG MP. My rating abbreviation is MA, and juniors would be addressing me as MA1. It's confusing if you're not in the Navy and other branch don't get so trade-specific as we do.
Nevertheless I wouldn't consider it rude if another petty officer would only call me by last name. I would however say something if a seaman would call me such
In my case, I'm a master at arms 1st class, equivalent to Army SSG MP. My rating abbreviation is MA, and juniors would be addressing me as MA1. It's confusing if you're not in the Navy and other branch don't get so trade-specific as we do.
Nevertheless I wouldn't consider it rude if another petty officer would only call me by last name. I would however say something if a seaman would call me such
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SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
Not at all, its regulation and we are NCO's there to train, fight, win and survive in Combat to bring our Soldiers home.
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SGT (Join to see)
Why would this be disrespectful? I only ask this because according to AR 600-20 that is how they are to be addressed. I know that other branches of service such as the Marines address each rank, but no the Army.
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Nope! I like sergeant.there are people out there that feel they need to be recognized. I don't. I'm a sgt just like you. When I put on the diamond, I'll be a 1sg. But not until that happens again. Glad you want to show the respect, shows you're of good character. But I don't need to here master sergeant.
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Nope. There are three sergeants in the Army: Sergeant, First Sergeant, and Sergeant Major.
If you want to do something different, work to change the regulation.
If you want to do something different, work to change the regulation.
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No, and Interesting... I don't know the regulatory answer, but I know how I was trained, and what I did... and I assume if I was wrong one than one NCO would have tightened me up.
I was taught all NCOs from SGT to MSG can be/should be addressed as Sergeant, whereas First Sergeants, Sergeant Majors and Command Sergeant Majors were addressed as such.
The only other NCO title I heard was Drill Sergeant.
Sergeant is correct, except for 1SG, SGM, and CSM...
I was taught all NCOs from SGT to MSG can be/should be addressed as Sergeant, whereas First Sergeants, Sergeant Majors and Command Sergeant Majors were addressed as such.
The only other NCO title I heard was Drill Sergeant.
Sergeant is correct, except for 1SG, SGM, and CSM...
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The regulation/correct way is to say Sergeant; therefore it cannot be considered disrespectful. I was a Marine spouse for 10 years and used to hearing "Staff Sergeant" and I can't see any harm in referring to someone by their full rank title.
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This is how the regulations states how we address those in these ranks. As I have mentioned many times to those soldiers who were once Marines, if you do not like the way soldiers address you then why did you get out of the Marine Corps in the first place. There are just too many individuals who are offended or do not like one thing or another how the Army works. I have been with the Army for over 50 years being an Army Brat and then serving in uniform for nearly 30 years and I learned a long time ago that things are the way they are for a particular reason. We change things if we can and those other items we just leave alone. As for you Sergeant, why are you so bent over on how someone addresses you? I have noticed for the past few years many young NONCOMs are always complaining on how the Army functions. Why do you stay in if you are so disgruntle with how the Army works, get out and be a civilian. I get tired of individuals as yourself who whine and complain when you do not like something or another.
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CW4 Larry Curtis
Maybe my time as a Warrant Officer has desensitized me toward this kind of stuff a little, I don't know, but this seems like such a non-issue to me as well. There was an old saying among Warrant Officers back in the day that says, "Respect between Warrant Officers is like virtue among whores." I mean common sense always dictated that you regard the guy who outranked you, but as a brand new WO1 (Wobbly One), I remember the first (and last) time I saluted a CW2 and called him Sir...the new hadn't worn-off of me yet obviously...and he jumped squarely into my backside and left me with that famous old saying about virtue. HAHAHA. I have never forgotten that.
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SFC Matthew Torres, Just do not address me as "SMAJ"! The general's aide did, once!
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CW4 Larry Curtis
Oh Lordy Lordy Lord...major infraction there. The Sergeant Major is ALWAYS referred to as Sergeant Major, in uniform or out of uniform. Even in shower togs. That's the least we can do to show respect for someone who has made it to the top of the food chain because you don't get there by loafing for 20-some-odd years plus. Even General Officers wouldn't be so disrespectful. Hell, I was just a snot-nosed Wiggly-Two when you retired. Thank you for your service and leadership, Sergeant Major! HOOAAAHH!
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While serving with the Army, I was instructed that Sergeants, Staff Sergeants, and Sergeants First Class could all be addressed as "Sergeant", however for Master Sergeants, First Sergeants and Sergeants Major it was custom to address them in full (although those are the ones I usually flubbed up one). I have always heard it's the Marine Corps that was more of a stickler about addressing all NCOs by full and proper rank.
We have similar issues in the Navy, but that's with rank vs. rate.
We have similar issues in the Navy, but that's with rank vs. rate.
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PO2 (Join to see)
Rank is Petty Officer 2nd or 1st class or Chief. Rate is the job you do + your rank, so I'm a 31K in terms of MOS, in the Navy we call that a Master at Arms, and I'm a second class, so it would be proper to address me as MA2 if you knew me. It's a difficult concept if you don't work with it regularly.
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CW4 Larry Curtis
Hmmm...isn't that much akin to this? You have a Staff Sergeant who is a Tank Commander named Carter...so then he would be referred to as Staff Tank Commander Carter, or STC Carter? Whew...every branch has to have it's own isms...after some thought I think a better comparison in the name would be more along the lines of TC-6 Carter or something like that, right? Now I'm freakin' confusled...HAHAHA.
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LTC (Join to see)
Some people on Rally Point are...I think RP is about making a "military culture"...maybe we can all learn something from each other?
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CW4 Larry Curtis
I think that is where the focus should be. The more we learn about each other the better off we will be from an operational standpoint...I mean the last thing I would ever want to do is piss off a Marine Gunnery Sergeant I am attempting to perform a joint mission with by insulting him. Hell, he'd probably whoop my ass for me...HAHAHA. But seriously, I think there is much to be gained by understanding our differences and the things which are considered important to each branch. Instead of comparing ourselves to each other in a manner which could appear condescending, or even self-deprecating, we should all just say, "Roger that, and noted," and continue to march into the fray knowing we have each other's backs.
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It doesn't bother me one iota or cause me to lose any more sleep than I already lose. As MSG Wade Huffman said, it's in AR 600-20 Ch. 1 in black and white.
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CW4 Larry Curtis
Oh sure, toss in something meaningful like the AR, will ya! LOLOL. Hey, that's our bread and butter and if it's in the regs, it's what we do...period. Great call.
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Coming from the Marine side of the discussion, I find it highly bizarre, but each service is entitled to decide how their members are addressed. To each his own.
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Speaking, I have a tendency to address a Master Sergeant as such:
As in " Mornin', MAS SARN'T", not because I'm drunk, but because it's my courteous habit.
I never refer to a SFC or SSG as anything but "Sarn't" or "Sarge."
As in " Mornin', MAS SARN'T", not because I'm drunk, but because it's my courteous habit.
I never refer to a SFC or SSG as anything but "Sarn't" or "Sarge."
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC Bowe,
Maybe it isn't courteous to call a SFC, "Sergeant". Perhaps we should refer to SGT through MSG as "Sergeant"- across the board. (Never said that soldiers are ridiculous to address them otherwise!)When I address an NCO, in formal writing, I use their correct title. When I'm speaking, I have simply always addressed a MSG as "Master Sergeant". This has been my habit for years.
Rarely do I refer to a SSG as "Staff Sergeant" when I'm speaking. Same goes with SFC. Always called them "Sergeants". And, to me, this does not lessen their position in any way. Consider it an abbreviation of sorts.
I understand what you mean by disrespect in person and social media. However, you and I may differ on what constitutes "disrespect". I personally do not believe that addressing a SSG by the title "Sergeant" is disrespectful...unless he or she takes offense to it.
And as with any other human being, I would apologize and try and remember to approach them, in both word and deed, more appropriately.
Maybe it isn't courteous to call a SFC, "Sergeant". Perhaps we should refer to SGT through MSG as "Sergeant"- across the board. (Never said that soldiers are ridiculous to address them otherwise!)When I address an NCO, in formal writing, I use their correct title. When I'm speaking, I have simply always addressed a MSG as "Master Sergeant". This has been my habit for years.
Rarely do I refer to a SSG as "Staff Sergeant" when I'm speaking. Same goes with SFC. Always called them "Sergeants". And, to me, this does not lessen their position in any way. Consider it an abbreviation of sorts.
I understand what you mean by disrespect in person and social media. However, you and I may differ on what constitutes "disrespect". I personally do not believe that addressing a SSG by the title "Sergeant" is disrespectful...unless he or she takes offense to it.
And as with any other human being, I would apologize and try and remember to approach them, in both word and deed, more appropriately.
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SFC(P) (Join to see)
I can only speak personally. I have no problem with it. It's kind of a traditional "umbrella" reference. Why it should all of a sudden now be considered disrespectful is humorous to me....
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Cpl Christopher Bishop
This is one big difference between Army and Marines. We don't do that. We are specific to the full name of the rank, followed by lastname.
The few exceptions:
We might "nickname" a Gunnery Sergeant (our E7s) as simply "Gunny".
We may also nickname our Company First Sergeant (our command E8 Billet) as "Top". But even using "Top" is more in reference to them, not what we call them directly. To clarify, a Master Sergeant (our non-command E8s) in the rare event the Company has both a 1stSgt and a MSgt, only the 1stSgt would ever be referred to as "Top" .... this would exist for the MSgt ONLY IF he is in the acting "Company 1stSgt billet".
When it comes to our E9s, the Command version is always Sergeant Major, the Master Gunnery Sergeant is often shortened to "Master Guns" and this has always seemed kosher.
Then we also have a "Gunner" not to be confused with either a Gunnery Sergeant, or a Master Gunnery Sergeant. A "Gunner" is usually a senior Chief Warrant Officer, who wears a CWO-4 or 5 rank on one side of the collar, but substitutes the same on the other collar for a bursting bomb symbol (a larger black version of the symbol inside the chevrons of the Master Gunnery Sergeant E9 rank). IIRC this person is usually the senior man of an Armory. I don't recall if addressing him as "Gunner" is ok by all, or only used by more senior enlisted, but to the junior staff I'm sure he is still "Sir". (or at least, they are popping a Salute while saying "Good Morning, Gunner".
Of course, I've been out of uniform for a bit, so any of you more recently active Devil Dogs out there would like to confirm or correct me here...your effort is greatly appreciated.
The few exceptions:
We might "nickname" a Gunnery Sergeant (our E7s) as simply "Gunny".
We may also nickname our Company First Sergeant (our command E8 Billet) as "Top". But even using "Top" is more in reference to them, not what we call them directly. To clarify, a Master Sergeant (our non-command E8s) in the rare event the Company has both a 1stSgt and a MSgt, only the 1stSgt would ever be referred to as "Top" .... this would exist for the MSgt ONLY IF he is in the acting "Company 1stSgt billet".
When it comes to our E9s, the Command version is always Sergeant Major, the Master Gunnery Sergeant is often shortened to "Master Guns" and this has always seemed kosher.
Then we also have a "Gunner" not to be confused with either a Gunnery Sergeant, or a Master Gunnery Sergeant. A "Gunner" is usually a senior Chief Warrant Officer, who wears a CWO-4 or 5 rank on one side of the collar, but substitutes the same on the other collar for a bursting bomb symbol (a larger black version of the symbol inside the chevrons of the Master Gunnery Sergeant E9 rank). IIRC this person is usually the senior man of an Armory. I don't recall if addressing him as "Gunner" is ok by all, or only used by more senior enlisted, but to the junior staff I'm sure he is still "Sir". (or at least, they are popping a Salute while saying "Good Morning, Gunner".
Of course, I've been out of uniform for a bit, so any of you more recently active Devil Dogs out there would like to confirm or correct me here...your effort is greatly appreciated.
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SGT (Join to see)
We will sometimes call our 1SG "Top"...directly. And we call our Sergeant Majors by their full title. Of course, I can only speak from my experience, so I shouldn't say "we", as some units are more lax than others.
There was a discussion on here as to whether a Private should be addressed as such, or called by their last name. Generally, they are called by their last name.
Additionally, in person, I'm referred to by my last name, not Specialist. All E-5s through E-7s are called "Sergeant."
Same thing goes with lieutenants. I don't wouldn't say, for instance, CPT (Join to see), "First Lieutenant Rosa, may I...", I'd refer to him as Lieutenant Rosa, or, "LT", or more than likely, "Sir". Same for 2LTs. We call them "Lieutenants."
I will call a WO "Chief", male or female, or "Sir or Ma'am."
Additionally, we sometimes call each other of the same rank by first name!
Really, I've never considered it too terribly complicated until I read this discussion.
There was a discussion on here as to whether a Private should be addressed as such, or called by their last name. Generally, they are called by their last name.
Additionally, in person, I'm referred to by my last name, not Specialist. All E-5s through E-7s are called "Sergeant."
Same thing goes with lieutenants. I don't wouldn't say, for instance, CPT (Join to see), "First Lieutenant Rosa, may I...", I'd refer to him as Lieutenant Rosa, or, "LT", or more than likely, "Sir". Same for 2LTs. We call them "Lieutenants."
I will call a WO "Chief", male or female, or "Sir or Ma'am."
Additionally, we sometimes call each other of the same rank by first name!
Really, I've never considered it too terribly complicated until I read this discussion.
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