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Thoughts?! I can understand if you are on KAF or BAF but the smaller FOBs and surrounding areas should have altered grooming standards at the very least for combat MOS's. I almost wish I was like some of these young guys who can go 4 days w out shaving and not be able to tell haha I guess I'll just have to get my long tab if I want to grow my beard.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 33
The US Navy just fired a few senior leaders and their Special Warfare commander just ordered the SEALs to return to Navy grooming and uniform standards.
On one hand: uniform and grooming standards are a) conformance and discipline tools that enable for indindividual service members to set themselves aside for the good of the group, b) in certain ways, these standards help sustain good health and hygiene to sustain the fight and c) our citizens expect that from the country's warfighters and ambassadors.
On the other hand, and a tool to enable for a balanced approach, altered grooming standards enable for a) prudent use of water and resources (do we shave or hydrate?) ,b) in specific cases, have helped service members to form stronger bonds with host nation forces, and c) when the priority is life, and you are fighting to defend, protect, and destroy, then grooming standards go out the window, temporarily, until the priority changes.
Look at old WWII photos and footage. Look at Korean War and Vietnam War photos and footage as well.
Balance. Mission priorities. Reasonable and common-sensed decision making. Clean up when you can for health and hygiene. If you can't for now, then do it when you can.
On one hand: uniform and grooming standards are a) conformance and discipline tools that enable for indindividual service members to set themselves aside for the good of the group, b) in certain ways, these standards help sustain good health and hygiene to sustain the fight and c) our citizens expect that from the country's warfighters and ambassadors.
On the other hand, and a tool to enable for a balanced approach, altered grooming standards enable for a) prudent use of water and resources (do we shave or hydrate?) ,b) in specific cases, have helped service members to form stronger bonds with host nation forces, and c) when the priority is life, and you are fighting to defend, protect, and destroy, then grooming standards go out the window, temporarily, until the priority changes.
Look at old WWII photos and footage. Look at Korean War and Vietnam War photos and footage as well.
Balance. Mission priorities. Reasonable and common-sensed decision making. Clean up when you can for health and hygiene. If you can't for now, then do it when you can.
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I did one deployment on a platoon sized COP with out running water for the duration. Obviously everything was more difficult. Only one guy had hair clippers and they were magically destroyed it would have made zero sense to risk a convoy to the FOB and risk lives for something like a hair cut. Lots of electric razor 5 o clock shadows. Lots of blouses off during the summer. On the flip side I did a tour on a FOB and that was basically a garrison environment.
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CPT Brad Wilson
I was at Camp Liberty the biggest base in Iraq during The Surge and we jokingly called it “Combat Garrison”. Saluting, PT belts and rocket attacks. I got kicked out of the mess hall by a 2 Star for being sweaty. Imagine that after walking almost a mile in 110+ temperatures and you are sweating
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I don't understand your statement. Are you complaining about the grooming standards, or commenting that you hate your face?
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Never undercut morale. Yes the CSM checking your socks to see if they are white is annoying yet something may metastasize into a bigger problem.
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PO1 William Ewing
Yeah, your CSM can eat a dick. Black socks made the athlete's foot worse; white socks didn't. My DD-214 says nobody can make me wear black socks anymore, but if you or your CSM think that black socks have magic powers to make you a better soldier, I suggest psychiatric help for both of you.
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The term is "operational grooming standards". Mission first, last and always.
Agnostic of every other factor: do the grooming standards help, harm or are neutral to accomplishing a given mission?
I hate beards, but in Afghanistan I had to grow one (such as it was). It itched. A lot. I was clean shaven even as a civilian.
Worry about how to best accomplish the mission and then all the other decisions that follow fall into place.
Agnostic of every other factor: do the grooming standards help, harm or are neutral to accomplishing a given mission?
I hate beards, but in Afghanistan I had to grow one (such as it was). It itched. A lot. I was clean shaven even as a civilian.
Worry about how to best accomplish the mission and then all the other decisions that follow fall into place.
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I've encountered a lot of animosity surrounding 'grooming' in my short Army experience. My conclusions are probably biased, but I feel there are a small few who require (yes, require) the option of utilizing relaxed grooming standards in order to more effectively operate or accomplish the mission. Anyone wearing ACUs (read uniform), in my honest opinion, should not need to dip into that toolbox of altered/relaxed grooming - it doesn't really provide a net positive for the accomplishment of the mission.
In my experience the relaxed grooming has been applied in order to meet the needs of females. Seems kind of a weird conclusion, but think a little bit about it. Command policies apply equally to all soldiers under said command. Many (from the business world at least) would find a female in business professional attire sporting a tight bun weird. Yes, relaxed 'grooming' gives females the ability to wear their hair down or 'stylish'.
Again, most in the force don't need this ability, but there are a small few who benefit from such a policy. (And it has nothing to do with 'looking cool', even though that's usually an unintended side effect.)
In my experience the relaxed grooming has been applied in order to meet the needs of females. Seems kind of a weird conclusion, but think a little bit about it. Command policies apply equally to all soldiers under said command. Many (from the business world at least) would find a female in business professional attire sporting a tight bun weird. Yes, relaxed 'grooming' gives females the ability to wear their hair down or 'stylish'.
Again, most in the force don't need this ability, but there are a small few who benefit from such a policy. (And it has nothing to do with 'looking cool', even though that's usually an unintended side effect.)
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PFC Bradley Campbell
the guys in Rhodesia's bush wars did not give a crap about beards or shorts for combat. get a grip guys. ever see Marines or Soldiers in other wars? mission first always. fashion show, not so much,
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SFC David Xanten
PFC Bradley Campbell - I always required my men to shave and clean their clothes as best they could while in the field. There are always exceptions due to operational needs, however, discipline is a core to being a member of the Armed Forces.
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Even the Special Forces Regiment makes guys shave on plenty of deployments. There is no carte Blanche relaxed grooming standards. We had guys fight multiple wars in worse conditions that didn’t bitch about weak sauce like this.
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When General Patton could require his troops to maintain shaves throughout his army in North Africa and going across France and Germany WWII.
With the primitive conditions of the time.
There is no reason for a lower standard now.
But he required Rancho be visible on the sleeve and the non camo unit patch to scare into surrendering to his units. If they knew third Army was attacking no Ashanti surrender
With the primitive conditions of the time.
There is no reason for a lower standard now.
But he required Rancho be visible on the sleeve and the non camo unit patch to scare into surrendering to his units. If they knew third Army was attacking no Ashanti surrender
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Maintaining grooming standards is not an option. As long as you're in the Army you should be required to maintain them There are many reasons but the main one is to maintain discipline and without that, we have no Army, only a bunch of people with guns that have on leadership.
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SFC David Xanten
PO1 William Ewing discipline is and always will be the cornerstone of the Military. If you can’t understand the need for it you might want to look for another career. It’s not the wearing of covers or shining you shoes, it’s the discipline that says to do it without being told. Leadership requires enforcing the regulations regardless or you opinions.
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PO1 William Ewing
SFC David Xanten - You obviously have some reading comprehension issues to go with the arrogance and condescension. I did my time already, and if you think yelling at someone for minor cosmetic bullshit is leadership, I pity your troops.
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SFC David Xanten
PO1 William Ewing - You shouldn't have to yell at someone in order to get them to understand the Standards you expect as a Leader. Maybe the Navy doesn't care about grooming Standards, but the Army sure does. I read your comments and so I don't I understand you when you said the grooming standards are not about Discipline outside of Basic Training. when in fact that where they start and they are just a very small part of the things that one learns while in Basic. Discipline is the CORE of the Military.
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PO1 William Ewing
SFC David Xanten - Big Navy leadership is as myopic as Big Army - they also think, like you do, that grooming is part of discipline. It is not, and never has been. Grooming standards are simply a tool, a lever to push servicemembers. In boot camp, it used as an external example of meeting discipline to help teach the concept. After that, it's application ends.
Making your bed with hospital corners is not a magic formula to success, despite what a SEAL claimed recently. If he needs that validation for his motivation to go do great things, his psyche is far more fragile than he lets on.
Making your bed with hospital corners is not a magic formula to success, despite what a SEAL claimed recently. If he needs that validation for his motivation to go do great things, his psyche is far more fragile than he lets on.
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Shaving while being deployed shouldn't be a big deal. Your in uniform and on Active Duty, should be a no brainier. Unless you have the Long Tab, no questions asked.
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SPC (Join to see)
It's not a big deal until you have no hot water and a 1 month old razor at a tiny fob someplace.
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SSG Keven Lahde
True I agree. But no electric outlets? Or have a stock in disposables one...lol. I hear ya....resources are limited. Then the base should have alternate to have it where you can shave every other day. Just a thought is all. Sorry on the imagine. I couldn't resist....lol
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TSgt (Join to see)
SFC David Xanten - Can't heat water in kevlar. Will damage it. Now, if you can lay hands on an old "steel pot" helmet, make a good basin for shaving and bathing.
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