Posted on Feb 26, 2016
SFC J Fullerton
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Given the societal change in this country that has been integrated into the Armed Forces, do younger veterans share the same views and attitudes of the traditional veterans clubs?
Are you uncomfortable participating when everyone else is considerably older and have different views? Should religion and politics be a focal point for Veterans Organizations?
Edited 10 y ago
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SCPO Investigator
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Edited 6 y ago
The vast majority of military veterans I know are conservatives. as are the members of every VFW or AL post to which I have belonged. Our values center around patriotism and defending the American flag. It sounds like you are asking these organizations to apologize for that. We have a POS president who's been going around the world apologizing for America and what we've done throughout history. The VFW and the AL have nothing for which they should or ever will apologize. Nor will I ever apologize for idolizing the men of the Greatest Generation who accomplished the most dramatic history-changing task since the beginning of time. Those men are my heroes, as are all war veterans of this country.

If a bunch of 23-year-olds think that what the VFW and the AL stand for and what they do is irrelevant and antiquated, more power to them to start their own fraternity that's more socialistic and left wing.
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SGM Mikel Dawson - Thank you, Sergeant Major.
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SFC Michael Ramsey
SFC Michael Ramsey
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So what your saying is those of us COMBAT VETS! that have fought the wars and are not right wing trumper's do not stand for the flag or what it represents and that we are not patriotic? BTW women also served and dies your dinosaur.
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From what you wrote and the way you wrote it, you don't surprise me at all.
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PFC Patrick States ... Your family is your first priority. Not the AL nor the VFW nor any of the four Masonic bodies I belong to will ever tell you otherwise. I didn't have time for any of them until I retired. Now, I'm a 40-year member with a lot of free time to make up for those same issues you are now facing. You attend and participate if and when you can.
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MSgt Mike Teresa Ash
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Speaking strictly for the American Legion, I'd have to say the question "should not" apply. The American Legion prides itself on being non-partisan. Any time a politician speaks to Legionnaires at a Legion function or event they are told upfront and in no uncertain terms they need to address veteran issues and they cannot "stump" for election or re-election. Of course, we know that veterans (okay, especially "older" veterans) typically tend to lean a bit to the right side of the political spectrum, however, every program carried out by the American Legion is devoid of partisan politics and focus on Children and Youth, Veterans, Rehabilitation and National Security. The primary purpose of the Legion is stated in one of it's bylines "Still Serving America". The Legion serves America's veterans and their families, by fighting for veterans benefits and the adequate care for veterans and their families.
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SFC J Fullerton
SFC J Fullerton
10 y
Go the American Legion National website. Click on the link for the 'Big Question" on the left and go through and read all the comments. Is the AL endorsing such views by allowing a politically fueled platform each week? You are right about their policy, but do they actually abide by it? Every time I see a Trump or Cruz rally on the TV news, their are plenty of AL legion members behind them wearing their AL hats. Is that not supporting a candidate in "uniform"?
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SFC Raymond Koeller
SFC Raymond Koeller
10 y
Chris Smith- Are you always such a D-bag when someone disagrees with you?
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PO3 Lucas Johnson
PO3 Lucas Johnson
10 y
Well said Mike
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Cpl Jason Feimster
Cpl Jason Feimster
>1 y
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Well said MSgt Mike Teresa Ash. The American Legion does not endorse candidates. Legion Family members are required to check their Legion cap at the door of any political rallies, fundraisers or conventions.
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PO2 Gerry Tandberg
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Edited 10 y ago
A number of years ago I had the privilege to be a team member on a community project sponsored by my employer to paint the American Legion building in our community. A handful of Legionnaires were on hand to provide some limited assistance as well as provide lunch for the volunteers.
I took the time to walk through their building and noted the fruits of their efforts displayed on their walls. The vast majority of those displays were reminders of the sacrifice made by WWII and Korean War Veterans. Some of these Veterans were young enough to have also serve during the Vietnam War.
I didn’t notice any specific endorsement of religion, however, I did notice a reverence to Christian values; which seem to be on par with what I see in the military today.
As we grow older the majority of us actually gain some wisdom, as well as a measure of regret over how we have conducted our lives. In the eyes and dialog of older Veterans I noticed they are quietly more interested in assisting the younger Veterans through the mine field of life than reliving the past. We are a very impatient generation and I think we need to sit back and not be so impatient with those we often consider out-of-date. In some cultures the old generation is held in high esteem and is given a wide berth of respect. This is often not true in our culture today. Consider one day you will be standing in their shoes. I say, joint the American Legion so that someday you may have the wisdom to address the concerns and issue you hold dear today.
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CSM Jerry Johns
CSM Jerry Johns
10 y
I am CSM Jerry Johns (retired) and I totally agree with you. Well said.
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PFC Thomas Cunningham
PFC Thomas Cunningham
10 y
PO2 Gerry Tandberg I am a newer age veteran and I agree with your statement. I would like to say I give a great deal of respect to the older generation of veterans but I have found life is very demanding for me and my family with to young children. I am a member of the AL and VFW but I addressed the concerns with both leaders of these groups and attending meetings and such. In my thoughts and worries I have seen negative talk towards the veterans and the VA treatment of veterans could give new veterans a moment of pause on joining these groups.
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MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht
MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht
10 y
Totally agree. Funny how some people think they will never grow old.
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Are groups like the American Legion and VFW too Right Wing Conservative for the new generation of Veterans?
SFC Keith Ciancio
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Edited 10 y ago
First off, religion and politics are not the focal point of ANY congressionally chartered veteran's group. In fact, their bylaws explicitly prohibit those activities as core activities. Do they lobby for veterans' issues? Absolutely! And they should. But they do not engage in partisan politics. Like your GI Bill? How do you think you got it? Like your VA home loan? Again, how do you think you got it? Do they still believe in the flag and one nation under God? With all their heart. It's called patriotism.

By the way, religious belief is not a condition of membership. But we do have prayers and the Bible is displayed because the vast majority of veterans are Christian as is the vast majority of American's. Don't like? Then propose a change to the bylaws. One's absence or silence is acquiescence.

I am 44 and I am the adjutant of my VFW post. I am by no means old. We are changing the face of the post each time we recruit new members. Instead of complaining about the relevance and acceptance of the veterans' organizations, try joining them and changing their makeup and direction at annual elections when you run for office. That is what I do.
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SFC J Fullerton
SFC J Fullerton
10 y
Thank you for your input. The question is based from observation and not really a complaint. I have joined, and have participated, so the question comes from experience rather than a perception.
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CSM Jerry Johns
CSM Jerry Johns
10 y
Thank you SFC Keith Ciancio that was well said.
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SGT Jeff B
SGT Jeff B
10 y
I agree politics should mean nothing in any of these organizations, but the one thing all members do have in common is they all at one point in their life they signed a blank check to the American people by swearing an oath to uphold and defend the constitution. Our oath is every current serving and veterans duty and does not expire. Politics don't mean shit.
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MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht
MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht
10 y
Well put
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PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
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Damn Good Question and I suspect you are on to something. Yes I am a Lifetime Member of the VFW but you are right. Get really tired of hearing FOX Talking Points constantly Regurgitated by the Older Veterans. Definitely a Turn off for us Younger Folks.
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PO2 Robert Cuminale
PO2 Robert Cuminale
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PO1 William "Chip" Nagel - Next you'll be referring us to Mother Jones?
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SGT Robert Jensik
SGT Robert Jensik
10 y
PO1 William "Chip" Nagel - I notice an "echo-chamber" on left-wing and right-wing people, but the worst part about it is how far apart and inflexible people get when they post up a message on social media. I have gone out of my way to try to broaden my circle of friends on FB and I try to reason with kids I haven't seen literally since kindergarten to slow their roll. The big test I've seen is to paste up some JFK quotes about financial and other less well-quoted issues, and none of today's left and half of today's right catch on about who said it. Wedge politics is going to screw up our continued existence. If a vet uses the wrong word for a person who is a different shade of green than they are, you can usually say "hey, that's not what we all fought for, c'mon man." I had/have older relatives who slip into those modes because it's how they were brought up. But I am not going to abandon my family because of it, I am going to try to politely assert the right attitude in a calm, gradual way whenever I can. And be advised: if you are not the same color as some politician, yet disagree with some policy or position of theirs, did you ever wonder if it is getting a bit sinister when the first gear they shift into is, "you are obviously a racist?" We have elected plenty of people from the wonderful melting-pot of the USA, people need to go easy on this dive into the race foxhole and compete in the world of ideas. I don't know what a Buddhist uses instead of "amen" but let me get down from the horse now.
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SGT Robert Rucker
SGT Robert Rucker
10 y
We are soldiers, not politicians. I leave the political correctness crap to others who will never have common sense. As soldiers we make what we have work. The change, the only change is for is for our vets to stop this FU social media philosophy crap. Do what's right for our own and stop the fighting over your beliefs. They mean nothing out it the field. And to those who say they earned their opinion, yes you did. Now is the time to keep that shit to yourself. Not mine, his, or hers.
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PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
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SGT Joseph Cabra - My Daughter is 35, My Son is 37. I'm Pretty Old.
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SSgt Christophe Murphy
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I think it has less to do with politics as much as overall priorities. Many of the new age Veteran NPO speak to what younger veterans want to do. Sports, parties and fun activities. Wounded Warrior Project will send you to concerts, water sports or even fly you to a city of your choice for a full expenses paid bike riding adventure. Many of the older vets want to hang out and drink. That isn't appealing to everyone.

The problem with the new age NPOs is that they are flashy but have no real content or agenda. They also have no voice on capital hill when it comes to veterans rights and issues. I only see DAV, American Legion and VFW storming the hill for change or voicing true problems.
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MSG Mitch Dowler
MSG Mitch Dowler
10 y
You are correct beware that some of these new age groups that have arisen were founded by anti-war protester types here in the Seattle area and have actually assisted AWOL and deserters.
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PVT Raymond Lopez
PVT Raymond Lopez
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As a member of the oppressed minority at my VFW Post I am doing my best to help the MAJORITY members by teaching them to read.
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Maj Drew Gilchrist
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Edited 10 y ago
As a founding member of a non-profit geared towards younger veterans, most of the members I've worked with embrace conservative values relative to the general population that never served and sacrificed in uniform. We host Outdoor Adventures, Disaster Missions, and helping brothers and sisters in need. Our guys love shooting guns, obstacle course races, are Patriotic, Ronald Reagan fans, etc.... They tend to hate the liberal / socialist / politically correct agenda's in our country.

The primary reason that led us to start a non-profit was the American Legion and VFW's were not providing a variety of fun, action based activities that challenged us physically and mentally. The Legion played a huge role in my WWII dad's life in the 40's and 50's. It was a drinking club / safe house / social network where veterans were comfortable and had fun. In todays world, the formal meeting structure and lack of activities may not appeal to younger vets, but the organization still serves many older veterans. I think it's the activities and mission, not the conservative culture that leads vets to other non-profits.

Social Media also fills many gaps for today's veterans. A lot of military units have private face book pages where members can communicate and support each other. So the old brick and mortar non-profit halls like the Legion and VFW have been replaced with technology based member networks.
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SFC J Fullerton
SFC J Fullerton
10 y
Thank you for your input sir. I think most veterans do share common "conservative values" There are extreme lefts as there are extreme rights, and not everyone is in agreement with either side, nor put that much importance into it.
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SGT Loren Hammons
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Please look at Concerned Veterans for America. We are neither left or right and only work on Veterans issues.
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CSM Jerry Johns
CSM Jerry Johns
10 y
I am a retired Army CSM and belong to The VFW, American Legion and The Vietnam Veterans Asscoiation and I have heard of your organization and truly respect what you do to help. We are all doing what we can for our new Veterans.
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SGT Loren Hammons
SGT Loren Hammons
10 y
I myself belong to the VFW Hurst Post, CV4A, Disabled American Veterans, Hero's on the Water, And WWP. I work at helping anytime I can and love keeping busy. I think I am more Independent than right.
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Sgt John Koliha
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Iknow that this is what has kept me from participating. I am a Vietnam Era (mid 60's) disabled retired Marine and the WW II and Korean War makeup just was a turn off. I think if you looked you would find a lower rate of participation for my contemporaries than for any other group. Maybe some guys joined when they were older, but right after ser ice, practically no one joined these organizations.

Justmy opinion. I couldld be wrong.
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SGT Eliyahu Rooff
SGT Eliyahu Rooff
10 y
You're quite right. They made us feel decidedly unwelcome when we returned from in country.
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SSG Ray Elliott
SSG Ray Elliott
10 y
I have heard what you are saying from a lot of Vietnam Vets, they just didn't feel welcomed, and it took many of them a long time to get over that before they decided to join. I've also met some who felt so unwelcomed by the VFW and Legion that they will never join.
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PVT Raymond Lopez
PVT Raymond Lopez
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SGT Eliyahu Rooff - When I came home from my first tour in Vietnam I stopped at the VFW Post in my home town which had sent me a membership and one of REMF in Bar said "We don't want losers here. I left before I inflicted grievous physical bodily harm on him. There are still REMFs in any vet post including one who was talking about shooting dogs which I took great umbrage at. I made my displeasure known to him.
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MSG Mitch Dowler
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I am a paid up for life American Legion member. The American Legion is apolitical with the exception of lobbying for Veterans and our benefits. There American Legion also gets involved in maintaining civil rights for Veterans so that we also can enjoy the benefits we served to protect. When there is a political issue of the day as appears in each monthly issue the American Legion publishes the viewpoint of both the Democrat and Republican Congressional supporter or opponent. If younger Veterans using things such as the GI Bill or enjoy the prospect of VA or retirement benefits then they are taking advantage of programs that were lobbied for by the American Legion.

I read the American Legion magazine as middle of the road moderate and it could only appear to be right wing from a far left perspective.
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SFC J Fullerton
SFC J Fullerton
10 y
Have you ever read the comments posted on the AL national website? Find the "Big Question" and take a look.
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LTC Martin Metz
LTC Martin Metz
10 y
I'm not sure which comments you're referring to. I took a look at both the American Legion's website and Facebook site, but only saw political neutral, pro-Vet content.
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SFC J Fullerton
SFC J Fullerton
10 y
On the AL website, many of the features have a link to comment. One of them is the "Big Q", which is a weekly survey of a political hot button issue, and a forum in which to comment/discuss. While maintaining official political neutrality on the surface, it is clear that the intent is to provide a platform to generate a certain view point, which could be interpreted by some as being rather extreme in nature. That raises the question if the difference in ideology are one of the reasons why membership is in decline.
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MSG Mitch Dowler
MSG Mitch Dowler
10 y
Our military was at it's largest during WWII and many WWII veterans, Korean War and Vietnam Veterans are and were American Legion members. The sized of the military has dropped drastically since the end of the Cold War. These things will naturally cause a decline in Veterans group memberships because there are just not as many Veterans.

The opinion of Veterans is in my opinion of the utmost importance and Veteran opinions should be taken and considered. Many Veterans continue to serve our country long after their military service is completed. The American Legion is for God and Country and those are great values to have. The Legion has not changed politically but our nation for over a decade took a left turn politically and this makes a contrast to Veterans groups that have maintained the same strong focus on Veterans for decades. It also creates a contrast seen by younger Veterans influenced by more liberal institutions such as public schools systems and universities.

Membership will likely continue to decline as the greatest generation dies off and also the result of a smaller military over a long period of time.
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