Posted on Feb 7, 2021
Are IG complaints legit for those who complain about not getting an award?
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This has happened to me in the past, and now a peer of mine is dealing with the same thing. A Retired/PCS soldier is threatening an IG complaint for not getting an award.
In my situation I had my bases covered and submitted said award twice up my chain of command to the BN under two different BC's. Long after the fact the PCS'd 1SG reached out to the CSM with a threat of IG. CSM then called me up to give me an ear full. I wasn't having any of that BS and said, well, when the IG contacts me I'll forward the two submissions via my Mil Mail to Battalion and sounds like it will still be your problem. Not mine.
Now my peer/friend Company CO is dealing with the same thing with his retired 1SG.
I basically told him it's an empty threat. Do whatever you feel is the right thing, and document it. Other than that, don't lose any sleep over it.
How can these "IG" complaints be legit. No one is obligated to get an award. Various awards have different/higher levels of approvals. The one in question is an MSM awards so at least a 1-Star would be involved in the final process. So it all comes down to someone complaining that a 1-Star isn't giving them a medal.
How can that be real?
In my situation I had my bases covered and submitted said award twice up my chain of command to the BN under two different BC's. Long after the fact the PCS'd 1SG reached out to the CSM with a threat of IG. CSM then called me up to give me an ear full. I wasn't having any of that BS and said, well, when the IG contacts me I'll forward the two submissions via my Mil Mail to Battalion and sounds like it will still be your problem. Not mine.
Now my peer/friend Company CO is dealing with the same thing with his retired 1SG.
I basically told him it's an empty threat. Do whatever you feel is the right thing, and document it. Other than that, don't lose any sleep over it.
How can these "IG" complaints be legit. No one is obligated to get an award. Various awards have different/higher levels of approvals. The one in question is an MSM awards so at least a 1-Star would be involved in the final process. So it all comes down to someone complaining that a 1-Star isn't giving them a medal.
How can that be real?
Inspector General
JAG
Awards
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 9
WOW, that is one of the worst sense of entitlement that I have ever heard. I have not received an award in the past. I wasn't too happy about but I just accepted it. The IG isn't some sort of magic entity that will take your side and make you feel better. The IG is only there to ensure the proper process takes place. They are usually there to protect the command from making an error. Awards are not required so there isn't anything he could do. I have feeling something didn't go well. I have never seen a company commander not get an award. The worst I seen was an AAM for a commander. He wasn't well liked so that is way he got that.
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LTC Stephen Conway
If the guys complaining, no comparison to the injustice that happened to Lt. Claudius. His patrol boat did a direct hit on a German U-boat and blew the bow off because his depth charge cooked off The torpedoes in the bow. The navy didn't believe him. The navy said he lied and didn't sink a German U-boat. The crew knew they sank The German U-boat. They saw the debris in the water and the explosion. The crew in the captain were shamed. 70 years later, they find the German U-boat. The front of the submarine was blown off. The PB S documentary of Nova show the awards ceremony. The navy gave The son of captain Claudius the legion of merit with V device.
https://www.stripes.com/news/navy-admits-error-honors-world-war-ii-captain-s-bravery-in-sinking-of-u-boat-1.320266
https://www.stripes.com/news/navy-admits-error-honors-world-war-ii-captain-s-bravery-in-sinking-of-u-boat-1.320266
Navy admits error, honors World War II captain's bravery in sinking of U-boat
The Navy has posthumously awarded the Legion of Merit with a Combat ‘V” device to Herbert G. Claudius, 72 years after it dismissed his claims that he and his crew sunk a German U-boat off the coast of Louisiana during World War II.
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Anyone can complain to IG. Soldiers believe that IG is a big red nuclear destruction button with a sign that says "Smash glass if angry at command".
IG only reviews policies, laws and procedures and makes recommendations based on those. An award is not an entitlement. Awards are at the Commanders discretion, and no outside agency can demand someone recommend an award. What the IG can do is review the awards process, find where it's stuck or lost, and make recommendations as to how to prevent it from happening in the future. If you submitted the award, twice, and it hasn't been denied or downgraded, then the issue isn't you. The IG report will conclude that you submitted the award IAW your units policies and identify where the award dropped and how to fix that routing chain in the S1 in the future.
In my opinion, IG complaints are usually good because it shows people that their complaints are unfounded and they aren't entitled to a thing just because they want it, or it shines light on a broken system that needs to be fixed. Honestly, I would expect a former 1SG to be more aware of the role of IG
IG only reviews policies, laws and procedures and makes recommendations based on those. An award is not an entitlement. Awards are at the Commanders discretion, and no outside agency can demand someone recommend an award. What the IG can do is review the awards process, find where it's stuck or lost, and make recommendations as to how to prevent it from happening in the future. If you submitted the award, twice, and it hasn't been denied or downgraded, then the issue isn't you. The IG report will conclude that you submitted the award IAW your units policies and identify where the award dropped and how to fix that routing chain in the S1 in the future.
In my opinion, IG complaints are usually good because it shows people that their complaints are unfounded and they aren't entitled to a thing just because they want it, or it shines light on a broken system that needs to be fixed. Honestly, I would expect a former 1SG to be more aware of the role of IG
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SSG Bill McCoy
I used to just smile and say, "Go for it," whenever someone would threaten to file an IG Complaint for chicken crap. My attitude about IG Complaints were that it would ultimately do nothing but prove I was doing my job. I've had two IG Complaints and both were determined as unfounded. One, my CO actually told me, "Good job!"
Nobody, but NOBODY should ever be intimidated with the threat of an IG Complaint; not unless they're doing something wrong.
Nobody, but NOBODY should ever be intimidated with the threat of an IG Complaint; not unless they're doing something wrong.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
SSG Bill McCoy - When I was a young SGT in the barracks, I was heavily involved with a CID investigation, as well as a separate IG issue, which none of my Soldiers knew about. I had three business cards taped to my wall locker - Post JAG, CID Special Agent, and IG NCOIC. Any time Soldier threatened to call, I brought them into my room, handed them my phone (this is in the day before cell phones, and most Soldiers in the barracks did not have a land line), and pointed to the business cards and told them to take their pick. I also told them to feel free to identify me personally (SGT O'Mally from X Co. X/XX IN) because they already had a file on me.
I also offered them the opportunity to record the info and call in private if they didn't want to speak in front of me.
Funny enough, not a single Soldier took me up on it.
I also offered them the opportunity to record the info and call in private if they didn't want to speak in front of me.
Funny enough, not a single Soldier took me up on it.
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SSG Bill McCoy
SFC Casey O'Mally - Now THAT's funny! As a HUMINTEL guy, I can imagine you had some contact with CID and JAG. You put those contacts to outstanding use! LOL I'm still laughing!
As an MP I was involved a lot with CID and of course, JAG for CM's and Federal Magistrate's U.S. District Courts. I only wish I'd thought of somethin like you did, but I never had anyone (SERIOUSLY) threaten me with an IG Complaint - just a rare off-handed remark. I'd just say, "Go for it." Had two lodged against me - both found to be unfounded - one PV2 whose wife was the daughter of a retired Major and she was his very own "barracks lawyer." He ended up getting chaptered out once the IG fiiled his report with the kid's ILLITERATE written statement, and other issues we had with him In very short order after he arrived, he was forbidden to perform any road duty. How he got thru MEPS and his recruiter, let alone BCT & MP School - well there was an investigation into those issues as well. (His DS signed his ID Card for him because the kid didn't know cursive! When I swore him to a statement, he had to literally copy and DRAW his signature from his ID Card.
The other was racial - LONG story about a guy I relieved when he was an Acting Jack; then years later when he was an actual SGT. LAZY was his problem.
As an MP I was involved a lot with CID and of course, JAG for CM's and Federal Magistrate's U.S. District Courts. I only wish I'd thought of somethin like you did, but I never had anyone (SERIOUSLY) threaten me with an IG Complaint - just a rare off-handed remark. I'd just say, "Go for it." Had two lodged against me - both found to be unfounded - one PV2 whose wife was the daughter of a retired Major and she was his very own "barracks lawyer." He ended up getting chaptered out once the IG fiiled his report with the kid's ILLITERATE written statement, and other issues we had with him In very short order after he arrived, he was forbidden to perform any road duty. How he got thru MEPS and his recruiter, let alone BCT & MP School - well there was an investigation into those issues as well. (His DS signed his ID Card for him because the kid didn't know cursive! When I swore him to a statement, he had to literally copy and DRAW his signature from his ID Card.
The other was racial - LONG story about a guy I relieved when he was an Acting Jack; then years later when he was an actual SGT. LAZY was his problem.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
SSG Bill McCoy - This is way back in the day when I was still in the Infantry. But I was one of the smarter guys in my unit, and also was pretty good at issuing useful statements - both written and verbal - so I quickly became useful for investigators. (There were serious systemic issues in our unit - and in most units around post at that point in time).
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It would not be valid if a DA 638 was not submitted because a soldier was never recommended for an award. I believe it would be a valid complaint if a 638 was submitted, but it was not appropriately routed to the approval authority for approval/disapproval. Once submitted by the recommender, the intermediate authority can recommend approval or disapproval, but the 638 should still continue it's journey to the approval authority even if the intermediate authority recommends disapproval.
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SGM Jeff Mccloud
This.
If an award was submitted and not moving up or down for months, that is counter to reg and policy, and IG should step in and point that out.
If no award was submitted, that is not an IG issue.
If no award was submitted, and this 1SG somehow believes that would be an IG issue in and of itself, he doesn't understand the basics of IG, or award reg and policy after 20+ years.
If an award was submitted and not moving up or down for months, that is counter to reg and policy, and IG should step in and point that out.
If no award was submitted, that is not an IG issue.
If no award was submitted, and this 1SG somehow believes that would be an IG issue in and of itself, he doesn't understand the basics of IG, or award reg and policy after 20+ years.
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I have found that those who seek out awards to the point of threats are seldom worth of awards. I have never sought out awards and actively thwarted some of them as I did not deserve an award. Some of my best awards were gifts from troops I lead and mean more to me than Command Bling. My retirement award is my retired pay and my world class people skills :)
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I have some awards. I don't however worry about getting them. It all comes out in the churn.
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Excuse me, I grew up in an Army where you could retire with only a Good Conduct and maybe an Army Commendation. A National Defense if you did an overseas tour. I forgot Nd scurrying around Afghanistan er Medals distasteful.
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SSG Edward Tilton
Eisenhower never wore those ribbons. He thought ribbons were pretentious.
I got a Bronze Star for Perfect Attendance in Vietnam
I got a Bronze Star for Perfect Attendance in Vietnam
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Suspended Profile
We don’t educate soldiers on the real purpose or function of the IG. Then toxic leaders compound it by telling soldiers to go to the IG if they don’t like what they’re being told. Feedback loop ensues, much time wasted.
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Thanks for all the responses. I learned some technicalities of the award process. So I'm glad I asked here.
In my situation I did tell the CSM I sent it up twice to his staff. So he asked I rewrite a bullet block and send it up again and CC him in the e-mail. So it probably got fixed.
In my friend's situation I'm pretty sure it's the same thing. BN and higher are administratively lacking.
I can barely take care of my own lane let alone worry about the process above me.
I spent 27 months in command of a legit sized company in RFX status and kept the wheels from falling off. It's more than a year out from that and no award for me. I left there with a top block OER, #1 LT in the BN, and #2 company in the BN (#1 company was headed by a CPT). My Commander's Climate Survey had the Company better than average for a USAR unit, and better than average for a QM unit. That success was documented in my out going OER so I'm happy about that.
I did submit a 638 for myself along with a batch of other 638s for ARG's PCSing. Who knows what happened to all those awards. I do not want to kick up any dust mentioning it, and I'm just glad to have moved on.
In my situation I did tell the CSM I sent it up twice to his staff. So he asked I rewrite a bullet block and send it up again and CC him in the e-mail. So it probably got fixed.
In my friend's situation I'm pretty sure it's the same thing. BN and higher are administratively lacking.
I can barely take care of my own lane let alone worry about the process above me.
I spent 27 months in command of a legit sized company in RFX status and kept the wheels from falling off. It's more than a year out from that and no award for me. I left there with a top block OER, #1 LT in the BN, and #2 company in the BN (#1 company was headed by a CPT). My Commander's Climate Survey had the Company better than average for a USAR unit, and better than average for a QM unit. That success was documented in my out going OER so I'm happy about that.
I did submit a 638 for myself along with a batch of other 638s for ARG's PCSing. Who knows what happened to all those awards. I do not want to kick up any dust mentioning it, and I'm just glad to have moved on.
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I never experienced any controversy surrounding an award, with one exception being multiple bogus awards. Most Marines were too busy to think about it. Hitting the main gate toward the ville got them through the day. If the floodlights weren't broken out for night work, that was a bonus. I did notice policy shifts and attitude changes in the latter years. I think that was due to more scrutiny toward political correctness in society.
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