Posted on Feb 23, 2015
Are marksmanship badges just like diamonds and are forever?
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I have seen a discussion about the wear of marksmanship badges. I might have a different perspective of this. Regulation states:
AR 600-8-22
8–47. U.S. Army Basic Marksmanship Qualification Badges a. A basic marksmanship qualification badge is awarded to indicate the degree in which an individual, military or civilian, has qualified in a prescribed record course and an appropriate bar is furnished to denote each weapon with which he or she qualified.
DA Pam 350-38
11-c. AC table of distribution and allowances (TDA) units with personnel assigned individual weapons will qualify semi-annually.
My take on this is if you are required to qualify every six months and have not you are not longer qualified with that weapon system. Hence, you can't deploy our do many other things with that. If you let this time lapse you are past your required time. So you would no longer be qualified. In 8-47 it states "to denote each weapon with which he or she is qualified." As I stated if I qualified with a M9 in Basic Training over 14 years ago, which I did, I am no longer qualified since I have never refired M9. But if so would you still wear it since that was reflecting your last qualification? Should it be your current, or most recent active qualification?
Do marksmanship badges last forever? Shouldn't we all be wearing our grenade qualification badge from when we qualified in basic training? Keep in mind that your qual will drop off your record after 2 years.
AR 600-8-22
8–47. U.S. Army Basic Marksmanship Qualification Badges a. A basic marksmanship qualification badge is awarded to indicate the degree in which an individual, military or civilian, has qualified in a prescribed record course and an appropriate bar is furnished to denote each weapon with which he or she qualified.
DA Pam 350-38
11-c. AC table of distribution and allowances (TDA) units with personnel assigned individual weapons will qualify semi-annually.
My take on this is if you are required to qualify every six months and have not you are not longer qualified with that weapon system. Hence, you can't deploy our do many other things with that. If you let this time lapse you are past your required time. So you would no longer be qualified. In 8-47 it states "to denote each weapon with which he or she is qualified." As I stated if I qualified with a M9 in Basic Training over 14 years ago, which I did, I am no longer qualified since I have never refired M9. But if so would you still wear it since that was reflecting your last qualification? Should it be your current, or most recent active qualification?
Do marksmanship badges last forever? Shouldn't we all be wearing our grenade qualification badge from when we qualified in basic training? Keep in mind that your qual will drop off your record after 2 years.
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Edited 11 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 31
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If you don't watch it expert will come back to bite you in the ass. We went to EIB one time they told us we could use our last expert qualification on our personal weapon for EIB mine was the m-60 which was fine till I realized I had to carry it on the timed road March I could have qualified expert with the m16a2 buy no had to be a badass
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Good point Sir. When I trained with the USMC III SOTG out of Okinawa for their Combat Handgun course. I was told by the instructor that the men assigned to that unit had to qualify everyday with what they were assigned to use or, they were removed from the unit.
With that said, they were very serious about their weapons, that unit had to respond to any crisis in the Pacific and Asian areas. I guess the USMC III SOTG Unit was kind of like the Army Delta force today.
One thing for sure, their shooters were top of the line, and very proficient with their weapons.
Thirty six snipers that can engage 36 targets all at the same time, with precision results, one shot one kill.
Being active with a SWAT team in my police department, re-qualifying with your assigned weapon was, and is, very important. In my opinion, still wearing your basic training expert pin, yes it's a conversational piece for what you were then, but your life counts on how well you shoot today.
"Your weapon is only as good as it's Shooter." Salute, and be careful out there!
With that said, they were very serious about their weapons, that unit had to respond to any crisis in the Pacific and Asian areas. I guess the USMC III SOTG Unit was kind of like the Army Delta force today.
One thing for sure, their shooters were top of the line, and very proficient with their weapons.
Thirty six snipers that can engage 36 targets all at the same time, with precision results, one shot one kill.
Being active with a SWAT team in my police department, re-qualifying with your assigned weapon was, and is, very important. In my opinion, still wearing your basic training expert pin, yes it's a conversational piece for what you were then, but your life counts on how well you shoot today.
"Your weapon is only as good as it's Shooter." Salute, and be careful out there!
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Cause we are proud of our accomplishments. In the Infantry we had to qualify every year (That was many decades ago, just glad they don't require you to retrain for Drivers Badge :-)
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Question: By regulation, don't SMs need to requal with those weapons systems in order to keep wearing those badges? Or can they qual once and then just wear it forever? According to regs...
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SGT Bryon Sergent
Section IV
Marksmanship Badges and Tabs
8–47. U.S. Army Basic Marksmanship Qualification Badges
a. A basic marksmanship qualification badge is awarded to indicate the degree in which an individual, military or
civilian, has qualified in a prescribed record course and an appropriate bar is furnished to denote each weapon with
which he or she qualified. Each bar will be attached to the basic badge that indicates the qualification last attained with
the respective weapon. Basic qualification badges are of three classes. Expert, Sharpshooter, and Marksman. The only
weapons for which component bars are authorized are in table 8–2 at the end of this chapter. Basic marksmanship
qualification badges are awarded to U.S. military and civilian personnel, and to foreign military personnel who qualify
as prescribed.
Or:
DoD § 578.97 Marksmanship Qualification
Badge.
(a) Eligibility criteria. A basic marksmanship
qualification badge is awarded
to indicate the degree in which an individual,
military or civilian, has qualified
in a prescribed record course and
an appropriate bar is furnished to denote
each weapon with which he or she
qualified. Each bar will be attached to
the basic badge that indicates the qualification
last attained with the respective
weapon. Basic qualification badges
are of three classes. Expert, sharpshooter,
and marksman. The only
weapons for which component bars are
authorized are listed in Table 10. Basic
marksmanship qualification badges are
awarded to U.S. military and civilian
personnel, and to foreign military personnel
who qualify as prescribed.
(b) Approval authority—(1) To military
personnel. Any commander in the rank
or position of lieutenant colonel or
higher may make awards to members
of the Armed Forces of the United
States; Camp/Post Commanders, Professors
of Military Science, Directors
of Army Instruction/Senior Army Instructors
(DAI/SAI) or Reserve Officers’
Training Corps (ROTC)/ Junior
Reserve Officers’ Training Corps
(JROTC) units may make awards to
members of the ROTC/JROTC.
Nothing denotes a time frame.
Marksmanship Badges and Tabs
8–47. U.S. Army Basic Marksmanship Qualification Badges
a. A basic marksmanship qualification badge is awarded to indicate the degree in which an individual, military or
civilian, has qualified in a prescribed record course and an appropriate bar is furnished to denote each weapon with
which he or she qualified. Each bar will be attached to the basic badge that indicates the qualification last attained with
the respective weapon. Basic qualification badges are of three classes. Expert, Sharpshooter, and Marksman. The only
weapons for which component bars are authorized are in table 8–2 at the end of this chapter. Basic marksmanship
qualification badges are awarded to U.S. military and civilian personnel, and to foreign military personnel who qualify
as prescribed.
Or:
DoD § 578.97 Marksmanship Qualification
Badge.
(a) Eligibility criteria. A basic marksmanship
qualification badge is awarded
to indicate the degree in which an individual,
military or civilian, has qualified
in a prescribed record course and
an appropriate bar is furnished to denote
each weapon with which he or she
qualified. Each bar will be attached to
the basic badge that indicates the qualification
last attained with the respective
weapon. Basic qualification badges
are of three classes. Expert, sharpshooter,
and marksman. The only
weapons for which component bars are
authorized are listed in Table 10. Basic
marksmanship qualification badges are
awarded to U.S. military and civilian
personnel, and to foreign military personnel
who qualify as prescribed.
(b) Approval authority—(1) To military
personnel. Any commander in the rank
or position of lieutenant colonel or
higher may make awards to members
of the Armed Forces of the United
States; Camp/Post Commanders, Professors
of Military Science, Directors
of Army Instruction/Senior Army Instructors
(DAI/SAI) or Reserve Officers’
Training Corps (ROTC)/ Junior
Reserve Officers’ Training Corps
(JROTC) units may make awards to
members of the ROTC/JROTC.
Nothing denotes a time frame.
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CPT Aaron Kletzing
SGT Bryon Sergent thanks for the clarification on that, brother. Can always count on a good NCO to cite the reg! :-) I do think it's a bit misleading to let someone qualify once on a weapon system and allow them to wear that badge forever. That rubs me the wrong way. All of us need refreshers from time to time, and I would say that right now I am probably not an Expert qual on the M-4, though I did qual as that a long time ago. It's the same thing IMO.
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SGT Bryon Sergent
Well I tell My guys that if we don't shoot them regularly, Mark 19, 50 cal, then you have to take the bar off with in a yr. Like now if we have to wear our ASU's and none of the unit has qual'd in a year then I say wear your duty weapon. M-9 and M-4. other wise I'd have bars going to my knee for Qual. lol. Grenade, M-2, M-249,M-240, m-60, fn-303,M- 203, M-26, M-16, LAW, AT-4, dragon..........
I haven't seen it in the reg's but I have been told that you can only wear three bars and only two qual badges?
I haven't seen it in the reg's but I have been told that you can only wear three bars and only two qual badges?
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CW2 (Join to see)
Three bars is true, you can't have 19 bars hanging off a single badge. I'm not sure on the 2 badge part, thought it was all three myself - for a total of 9 bars. IDK who would have the time and arsenal to qualify for 9 bars within a 1 year time period, especially since there are some obscure weapons for which bars exist:
small bore rifle, auto-rifle, SMG, etc...
small bore rifle, auto-rifle, SMG, etc...
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The only way you can wear one of the three badges is to be current in your qualification. You can't wear something that you have not qual'd on. I haven't qual with a 50 cal in 4 yrs. Can I wear it, NO! I Qual'd expert with my M-9 and Sharpshooter with my M-4. That's all I qual'd on so that is all I can wear! like you said you Qual every 6 to 12 months. They go by you last Qual. If the unit has deployed and not been to the range since you left and you are not going back to the unit till after your 90 day yellow ribbon. Active isn't going to give you the money or rounds! So there for you wait til you go next. IF it is over two years no you can't wear it. I I retire and can wear my Uniform then that is showing what I got out with and is a different story!
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CPT (Join to see): Wait... you should have expert in anything you're required to fire... it's really simple for officers... just get your Skillcraft pen out and start punching holes... ;)
On a more serious note: The regulation says semi-annually. I believe there is a regulation which states if you are unable to qualify due to not being able to get to a range (due to mission, deployment, whatever), you may wear your last marksmanship badge up to one year after qualification. I am not positive as to what regulation it was (perhaps 670-1)...
Most commands, from what I've seen, tend to ignore your quals until it's time to go in front of a promotion board, or perepare your OER/NCOER - where they'll look at your actual last qualification.
Personally, barring extreme circumstances, there's not much reason you can't get qualified, even while deployed (I've done it every deployment).
It's also not that difficult to find out what units are doing qualifications on the weapons you want to qualify on, and arranging something with them in most cases.
On a more serious note: The regulation says semi-annually. I believe there is a regulation which states if you are unable to qualify due to not being able to get to a range (due to mission, deployment, whatever), you may wear your last marksmanship badge up to one year after qualification. I am not positive as to what regulation it was (perhaps 670-1)...
Most commands, from what I've seen, tend to ignore your quals until it's time to go in front of a promotion board, or perepare your OER/NCOER - where they'll look at your actual last qualification.
Personally, barring extreme circumstances, there's not much reason you can't get qualified, even while deployed (I've done it every deployment).
It's also not that difficult to find out what units are doing qualifications on the weapons you want to qualify on, and arranging something with them in most cases.
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CPT (Join to see)
The only place I have seen a soldier go a year without a qual is here in the guard. The state didn't have a lot of funds so units that were not priority didn't qual that year. All ammo was pretty much allotted to our BCT. Beside that I agree with you. I don's see why. It just seems like a soldier just wanting to wear some badge that he got years ago and now he can't qualify with that anymore.
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For the sister service side, the AF Marksmanship Ribbon is permanent once awarded.
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
CPT (Join to see), LOL, no not that kind. If you take a look at this AFI it covers a bunch of them. http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afi36-2805/afi36-2805.pdf
For example, if you won Best CGO Infantry Officer in the Army, that would be the equivalent to our functional awards that qualify.
For example, if you won Best CGO Infantry Officer in the Army, that would be the equivalent to our functional awards that qualify.
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CPT (Join to see)
My bad. That was the Navy in Top Gun. I just read it. It makes sense. So if you have a team of mechanics that did an awesome job you can award them his ribbon. Right?
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
Eeeeh, yes and no. They would have to compete for and win an award at the squadron level, then the group, then the wing, (depending on command NAF, then MAJCOM level and finally win as the best in the Air Force.
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