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For the past 14 years, the American public has largely sought to thank our troops and show their support through measures both great and small. From "Support Our Troops" bumper stickers to airlines allowing Military personnel to board flights ahead of all other passengers. With the Wars now winding down, Navy Veteran and Team Rubicon employee Ken Harbaugh explores a much deeper looming dilemma as he sees it: The Risk of Over-Thanking Our Veterans. He goes well beyond the simple courtesies of the 10% discounts and the pats on the back from a grateful nation - he points to the exploding costs of caring for the Veterans who have been at war these past 14 years, the soaring VA budget, a Comp & Pen system that is often gamed by Vets for a payout, and the potential fallout and resentment this may ultimately engender with the broader taxpaying public who may ultimately ask if they are paying too much?
What do you say, RP Nation? Does Mr. Harbaugh raise some valid points? Or is he merely a Veteran who is better off than most who is on a soap box and pointing fingers? What say you?
What do you say, RP Nation? Does Mr. Harbaugh raise some valid points? Or is he merely a Veteran who is better off than most who is on a soap box and pointing fingers? What say you?
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA)
DAV
The American Legion
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 34
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We should never stop this process! We still owe our Vietnam Veterans more thanks then they ever received after that war! I believe we have a long road ahead of us in this battle on Terrorism or whatever they are calling it now. We need the community and populace support to continue like it never has before, so we can continue to win this war! It will not go away! Just one man's opinion!
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MAJ (Join to see)
COL Mikel J. Burroughs, Sir, I concur. Harbaugh's point however, is that unless the current Comp & Pen system at the VA is reformed, the current Military/civilian cultural divide of today will fester into all out contempt and resentment from a taxpaying public that will come to view the Veteran as a burden.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
I see his point and I trump it. We need to quit spending money on entitlements that continue to make our poor (poorer) and we need to continue to work on improving and funding our VA, Comp, and Pen System. I can tell you that Congress and the Government won't revamp theirs, so why should we revamp those of veterans and retired soldiers that have given most of their lives for the Government. Please don't get me started, but I do understand what the problem is.
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Great question Paul! I'd say somewhere in the middle. If the government really wanted to thank us, they would fix the VA period. Not sure how easy it is to scam as I have been trying to get what I feel is a legitimate claim in for years. I agree in my case that happening on AD and service related are 2 different things but there should be a bit more leeway.
I think the civilian "thanking" is getting a bit over the top because I'm not sure if they understand what they are thanking us for. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are plenty out there including myself that appreciate it on occasion but do you see a uniform and go up and say "thanks for your service" because of the uniform or does it have actual meaning for you?
I think the civilian "thanking" is getting a bit over the top because I'm not sure if they understand what they are thanking us for. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are plenty out there including myself that appreciate it on occasion but do you see a uniform and go up and say "thanks for your service" because of the uniform or does it have actual meaning for you?
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Yes, and it has created a weird sense of entitlement among veterans. Thankfully, there is starting to be a roll-back of sorts from veterans "policing their own" and letting other vets know this was never what it was about.
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MAJ (Join to see)
SGT James Elphick, I concur heartily. Unfortunately, if you read the comments field below this article, Mr. Harbaugh is very much maligned for his contention; by Veterans. This proves your point about the current entitlement mindset that has become pervasive among Veterans.
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SGT (Join to see)
I haven't noticed the "hollow" thanks John. It's been my experience that the fad of thanking every person in uniform you see is more or less over, so a majority of the people that thank me are the genuine article. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of entilted vets out there, and you won't find me turning down a free beer, but I like to think that the people who feel "entitled" to free stuff due to their service represent the 10% we all know about.
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In the end, how can we not thank those who are willing to risk their lives for others? Although I served for nearly 24 years, I was never in a combat situation where I feared for my life. Many did. I can't imagine having to do that day-in and day-out for an extended period of time - to live under the fear of death or severe bodily harm.
The alternative is having too few willing to sacrifice for others. Then what?
In his book "Duty", Robert Gates quoted George Orwell - "people sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men (and women) stand ready to do violence on their behalf".
I'm willing to thank those who "stand ready" for the sake of my family and my way of life. I'd rather it be too much than too little.
The alternative is having too few willing to sacrifice for others. Then what?
In his book "Duty", Robert Gates quoted George Orwell - "people sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men (and women) stand ready to do violence on their behalf".
I'm willing to thank those who "stand ready" for the sake of my family and my way of life. I'd rather it be too much than too little.
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Are you asking if the American people are over thanking a veteran. Or is the question at individual places of business. Any case how can you over thank people that has saved your life in more ways then one, your freedom and independence. Heck if you don't or can't afford giving funds don't. Hang an American flag, or post a sign thanking the service member. Can we ever thank each other enough, vet to vet. I say hell no. Any given vet dont have to go for comp or pension. Keep your pride, i need the health care.
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As in any other social program there will be some who game the system, but to broadly state, .."often gamed by Vets for a payout", demonstrates a narrow view of the needs of veterans. Once we stop thanking our veterans, it seems to me that the country will begin to resent them and start pulling back their support. At least until the next time our country needs it's warriors to defend a democratic principle this country believes very strongly in.
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Oh wow... I try to remain calm and collected in a variety of my posts, reserving my vitriol for the Department of VA. This thread & article is not specifically about them, so if I slip, I apologize in advance.
The author is working under some false assumptions. The first of which is:
"and are set at varying levels to compensate injured veterans for an assumed inability to work."
This is the exact text from the VA website:
"Disability compensation is a monthly tax-free benefit paid to Veterans who are at least 10% disabled because of injuries or diseases that were incurred in or aggravated during active duty, active duty for training, or inactive duty training. A disability can apply to physical conditions, such as a chronic knee condition, as well as a mental health conditions, such as post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)."
Although an injury or disease MAY result in an inability to work, that is in no way a prerequisite for Disability Compensation. The higher the percentage, the higher the chance there will be of an inability to work however.
Second, the amount of Disability Fraud, though he doesn't call it that, is in line with all other Fraud. About 5%. Let's not make this issue out to be larger than it is. Compare that to the inefficiencies in the VA processing system, and that is over shadowed by far.
This is not a case of thanking veterans too much. This is a case of veterans entering an era where the system is theoretically capable of supporting them administratively if not operationally.
The author is working under some false assumptions. The first of which is:
"and are set at varying levels to compensate injured veterans for an assumed inability to work."
This is the exact text from the VA website:
"Disability compensation is a monthly tax-free benefit paid to Veterans who are at least 10% disabled because of injuries or diseases that were incurred in or aggravated during active duty, active duty for training, or inactive duty training. A disability can apply to physical conditions, such as a chronic knee condition, as well as a mental health conditions, such as post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)."
Although an injury or disease MAY result in an inability to work, that is in no way a prerequisite for Disability Compensation. The higher the percentage, the higher the chance there will be of an inability to work however.
Second, the amount of Disability Fraud, though he doesn't call it that, is in line with all other Fraud. About 5%. Let's not make this issue out to be larger than it is. Compare that to the inefficiencies in the VA processing system, and that is over shadowed by far.
This is not a case of thanking veterans too much. This is a case of veterans entering an era where the system is theoretically capable of supporting them administratively if not operationally.
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We need to be more specific in what we are thanking them for. I for one have a damn difficult time not filtering out the gratuitous "thank you" every time some one learns I have served.
What does my service actually mean to you? What are you doing to make my sacrifice or the sacrifice of my brothers and sisters worth it? Are you thanking me for the gas that powers your lawnmower so you can cut your grass for the BBQ party this weekend? Or are you thanking me for the sense of security I provided, allowing you to sleep peacefully at night?
When you thank me, I want to know what my service meant to you.
What does my service actually mean to you? What are you doing to make my sacrifice or the sacrifice of my brothers and sisters worth it? Are you thanking me for the gas that powers your lawnmower so you can cut your grass for the BBQ party this weekend? Or are you thanking me for the sense of security I provided, allowing you to sleep peacefully at night?
When you thank me, I want to know what my service meant to you.
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