Are you/we surprised? U.S. Soldiers, Back in Iraq, Find Security Forces in Disrepair....

I was on an Iraqi National Police Transition Team in 2006 and saw first hand living with the Iraqis that the mission of training and advising them would take upwards of 20 years minimum. The Iraqi officers "buying" their commissions was going on back then. "Ghost" Soliders/Policemen on the payroll was SOP. Maintenance was only conducted after the truck/vehicle broke down.

Unlike Germany, Korea, and Japan I don't believe the Iraq/Afghanistan culture is capable of "righting" itself in a form of a stabilized civilization. I really don't believe any Islam culture is capable of doing it themselves. You could point to the U.A.E., Qatar, Saudi Arabia and say that those countries are doing well but, those countries are propelled by Third Country Nationals that are treated like slaves, there are more TCNs in those countries than indigenous people, plus they have an incredible amount of money.

We definitely left Iraq too early, we put too much blood, money, and resources into the country to not remain until the mission (whatever that was) was complete. I am currently in Afghanistan and although we are maintaining the troop numbers throughout the year, drawdown is still the main focus. We are making the same mistake here that we did in Iraq.

If we leave we need to just stay gone and not come back. If we are staying we need to stay and see it through, however long it takes.

Iraqis are not Americans.

Iraqi Soldiers are not American Soldiers.

You can put lipstick and pearls on a pig....

This is not to say the Iraqis are bad people. They aren't. But they just don't have the same (for lack of better word) background we do.

Expecting them to go from where they were to where we are, was an unreasonable mission. When we "liberated them" we obligated ourselves to their protection for generations. Not years, not decades, but generations.

Edit: word

Not even a little bit sir. I left Iraq the day before they closed the last COB down. I thought we left too early then and I still think so now. For the amount of time, money, and lives we invested we sure seemed willing to wash our hands of the whole affair. I understand the economic concept of sunk resources, but Iraq was not ready to stand on it's own. Sometimes I wonder if that part of the world is capable of being ruled by anything other than a cruel dictatorship.

Nope. Called it.

The Iraqi and Afghan forces will not properly maintain any US equipment, it costs too much money and requires significant detail orientation and organizational discipline. Without US forces to assist and influence these countries will return to the 3rd world despots we temporarily displaced.

No real difference in this war and MY WAR (Vietnam). Lost over 58,000 and never allowed to carry the war to Hanoi and definitely WIN!!!

I am not the least bit surprised. Upset, disappointed, and angry? Hell, yeah! But not surprised.

"Did you have confidence in the long term prognosis when you left?"
No, not even a little bit.
This was after my commander handed back Sadr City to Iraqi officials
This was after my commander had both legs removed by an IED hours later
This was after we lost another fine leader on the way back from taking the commander to the level III
This was after we started down the road of "ask your Iraqi counterparts first before you...."
This was as I was leaving... for the second time from Iraq and no I had no delusions that it would end well. I do not know of any Soldier on the ground at my level that thought it would work out well.

Considering how corrupt the Iraqi government was, not at all....

One thing to remember about Iraq: culture aside, there is not a large pool of candidates who have experience running a nation. Saddaam ensured that, as anyone was smart, ambitious and/or talented was a threat to him and his regime. So those folks either left or ended up in a shallow unmarked grave. It is going to take time to grow not only competent officers and NCOs, but competent civil servants as well.

Corruption is at the core of these dictator states. They were just waiting until they had little supervision to go right back to the old ways of doing things. It is all they know. No more invasions/liberations/nation building missions unless there is resolve to stay just like the other countries we are still woring with. Japan, Germany, Korea, etc. 70 years later and we are STILL there. We have to put priority into fixing our own problems at home. Our infrastructure is in dire need of repair.