Posted on Aug 10, 2015
SGT Infantryman (Airborne)
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How do you feel about this report? I thought it would be interesting to see your viewpoints.
The Army is in an era when it is shrinking and needs its troops to truly meet the requirements of the best Soldiers.The Army will need both the best physically and mentally trained Soldiers. The question is: Why doesn't Army use the most current resources to make sure Soldiers are truly physically prepared for the battlefield?

Why is the Army using physical fitness testing standards based on information from the '80s and '90s? Why is the Army using a body fat assessment that has no scientific justification on telling if a Soldier is actually overweight?



Check out this article from Army Times:

Commentary: Army's fitness training fails the combat test


http://www.armytimes.com/story/opinion/2015/08/10/commentary-armys-fitness-training-fails-combat-test/31283677/
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Responses: 6
SGT Kristin Wiley
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Edited >1 y ago
The average weight of a male is really 200lbs? Maybe for the general population, but I don't feel like that's the average for the military population. I think this article is spot with what's wrong with the body fat measurements and PRT. We need to increase stamina and energy in combat so we can outlast the enemy and give our troops the best chance of getting out safely. PRT is a joke, and I would really love to have a conversation with whoever came up with it to understand what they were thinking.
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SGT Infantryman (Airborne)
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SGT Kristin Wiley, Thank you for your comments. I can see where some changes in exercising need upgraded. Although, the training we received in my era, made me the most fit I've ever been in my life. Like all things, you get out of it what you put into it. Y'all wear shorts and Tees. We wore BDU's and combat boots to exercise and run in.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
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SGT Kristin Wiley Here's the CDC Link for both men and women:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/body-measurements.htm

Keep in mind that these numbers can be manipulated rather easily though. This puts average US male height at 5'9"+ and female at 5'4"~. When you add in "super obese" it tilts the scale heavily to one side, and there is no way to tilt it back, as there is no corresponding "weight class" on the other side.
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COL Charles Williams
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SGT (Join to see) Makes sense. I never liked the tape for that very reason. Sit-ups have caused countless injuries. This troops suggestions make sense. The Army is currently looking at new tests. I believe we need a basic Soldiers fitness standard - weight and fitness, and then MOS specific standards for physical fitness job by job.
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COL Ted Mc
COL Ted Mc
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COL Charles Williams - Colonel; "Sit-backs" are physiologically much safer than "Sit-ups" and end up achieving the same end.

The advantage of "Sit-backs" over "Sit-ups" is that "Sit-backs" to NOT require an initial 100% (of final desired level) muscle stress level and can be gradually increased in the amount of muscle stress level required as the troop builds effective muscle mass.
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SGT Infantryman (Airborne)
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COL Charles Williams, COL Mikel J. Burroughs, COL Ted Mc, Wearing shorts and Tees would have been a lot more comfortable than BDU's but the PT wouldn't have been as effective, IMO
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COL Charles Williams
COL Charles Williams
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SGT (Join to see) - We had Boots, green pants, and W t-shirts for PT when I came in 1980.
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SGT Infantryman (Airborne)
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COL Charles Williams, You're just a youngster. LOL We had to wear tees and long sleeves for PT, all day long.
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SFC Senior Instructor
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The Army needs to realizes the advancements in PT and go with something that works in this day and age!
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SGT Infantryman (Airborne)
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The fat standard stood out with me. Has the Army made any changes in PT since I was in?
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SFC Senior Instructor
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Absolutely none. The tape test makes no sense for muscular Soldiers. And the APFT events don't measure anything in terms of true fitness.
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Army's fitness training fails the combat test. Why is the Army using standards based on information from the '80s and '90s?
SSgt Alex Robinson
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We need to modernize fitness testing and nutrition
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
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Because Physical Fitness is a Health issue, and Combat is an Objective Task, which is only indirectly related to Health. You can be horribly unhealthy and still survive in Combat, and perfectly Fit and not survive.

As for Body Fat measurements, the "most true" answer is because it is the easiest and "most fair" method that can be administered with the least amount of training, and least amount of screw-ups. It's hard to screw up a weight/height calculation. It's hard to mess up measuring someone's waist & neck. Accuracy is not the primary concern, it's "consistency."

Most people who "fail" are legitimate failures. Again, I say MOST. Not all. But most. Yes, there are exceptions, and they are unfortunate. But the major issue is not that we need a better system, it's that we need to de-link our Health measurement tool from our Combat & Leadership assessment tools. Someone's weight is not indicative of their leadership capabilities, nor their combat prowess.
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SGT Infantryman (Airborne)
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS, OK, you've talked me down. I'm not one who likes to get the last word to prove a point so I concur you are correct. What do I know? I've been away for 50+ years and you're more up to date on these things. All I know is all the PT I took before going to Nam helped me be a better grunt by being physically, and mentally fit. That's about all I can offer on this subject.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
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SGT (Join to see) I absolutely think PT is essential. Make no mistake about that. I agree with you wholeheartedly on that, and I think on most/all your post. It's ALWAYS better to be more physically/mentally fit. Without a doubt.

My issue is that the TEST isn't designed to prep our folks for combat. It's just a measure of Health. Sure having a better score will HELP in combat, but it's an indirect relationship. We need to figure out a Test/System that directly prepares folks, as opposed to indirectly helps (if that makes sense).
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SGT Infantryman (Airborne)
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS, Slap a 65 pound ruck sack, on their backs, with weapon in hand and have them go on a 20 mile road March. Those that fall out have to recycled and continue trying to make the grade. That's real world training for combat or whatever their MOS is. Even cooks and REM's need it. You never know when they might have to fill in if there is a need for extra bodies.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
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SGT (Join to see) That's an objective task. No problem with that.
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COL Ted Mc
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SGT (Join to see) - Sergeant; What is needed is [a] endurance (under adverse conditions), [b] high burst output, [c] upper/lower body strength parity, and [d] agility.

I totally agree with the statement "If a Soldier has to run two miles on the battlefield, something went terribly wrong and the leadership made a decision that probably got everyone killed." and have never been in an operational situation where the ability to do 50 pull-ups has been necessary.

I suspect that "[a] endurance" and "[c] upper/lower body strength parity" could be achieved by routine, full-load, road work (NOT "runs"). I also suspect that "[b] high burst output" could be achieved by training for almost any of the "combat function ability" programs yet put out (being evil and devious, I'd "schedule" them at random times and random places - i.e. walking in to the Orderly Room and announcing "This room has just been bombed and you, you, and you, have to extract him, him, and her 50 yards down the road NOW.") That might also achieve "[d] agility" but there I'll leave it to your imagination (you can include mandatory "Twister" sessions if you want, but I also approve of making the "Confidence Course" more "interesting" and having people undertake it more frequently).

PS - During the Falklands War the Brits found that those soldiers who had been the best performers on "the runs" also were amongst the first to get burned out when required to produce continued exertion on a steady basis (especially if they had to do so for much longer than "the runs" usually lasted while those who had higher proportions of body fat were able to perform - effectively - for much longer.
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SGT Infantryman (Airborne)
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COL Ted Mc, Sir that sounds like a good program. Almost anything would be better than what is in place now. All said and done, it's really up to the individual whether he/she wants to be physically fit. If they have poor eating habits(candy, ice cream, sodas) all the exercise in the military won't help them. I took all of my training serious. I figured if I had to do it, I might as well reap the benefits. I could low crawl fast and have no buttons left on my shirt when I finished.
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