Posted on Aug 5, 2014
SSG Robin Rushlo
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Atheists want guard to stop bible handouts what is your opinion
If you do not believe in the BIBLE GOD JESUS etc do not take the BIBLE. Easy answer

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/08/05/atheists-want-guard-to-stop-bible-handouts.html?ESRC=eb.nl
Posted in these groups: Atheism symbol Atheism
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LT Surface Warfare Officer
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My only questions are 1)Who paid for them? and 2)Who is being paid to give them to "everybody"? If my tax dollars are buying them and paying soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines to try and give them to everyone, then I expect equal billing for all religious texts. If privately funded and distributed, go to town, but no thank you, I don't need one.
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LT Surface Warfare Officer
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>1 y
That's great and well within their rights. Are they handed out or made available though? On most Navy bases, the chapels have areas where literature of most types is available, though not endorsed specifically.
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PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
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Yeah it was a tradition to get the MWR Package before deployment containing the Gideon's Bible but it does kinda fly in the face of Separation of Church and State when the Military does Represent the "State". I think they have a Point. Maybe a compromise have Several "Holy Books" available and let the service member choose or not.
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SP5 Tom Carlson
SP5 Tom Carlson
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no one is being ordered to take it..
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PO1 Disaster Survivor Assistance Specialist
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Actually, there might be some debate on that matter. If you're handed a package, contents unknown, then you can either take the entire package or reject the entire package on the premise it might have something inside you find offending. If that is case, then simply being handed an unopened package could be considered "an order" if no other instructions were provided. I can remember being in line with hundreds of others being told to get into one line after another - being handed manila envelopes with instructiosn to not open them while in line - all without explanation. If you asked what was in the package you were told to "shut up and get back in line". After a while of being constantly bombarded with similar packages, to include bibles and bible-study material, one simply takes what is given without question. What was sad, was I later learned the chaplain in charge of the bible hand-out was so very proud of his efforts - until the base commander informed him of just how many of the bibles and study material ended up in the dumpster behind the building (nearly 2/3 of a 20 yard dumpster).
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PO1 Disaster Survivor Assistance Specialist
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No argument PO3 Ben Sackenheim . There are lots of things done that are in the 'shouldanot' column - where senior individuals with the right thoughts used the wrong tactics/strategy.
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SFC James Barnes
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First off they are offering bibles. if you don't want one or don't believe in god then kindly say no thank you. People now days really need to grow thicker skins and stop looking for a mountain when its a mole hill. IMHO ok maybe not so humble lol
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SSG Ed Mikus
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who cares, keep handing them out.
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COL Charles Williams
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Bibles and other religions materials should always be available to Soldiers who want it.
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SSG Chemical Biological Radiological and Nuclear Operations Specialist
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The length of this conversation is the explanation as to why handing out any religious texts is a sub optimal course of action.

No free bibles, no issue. If you believe then you probably have a few of your own, if you do not, you may also have one or two.

So why hand one out? What purpose does it serve? The only one I can think of is the hope that a person will read it and come to believe. If that is the case then it is attempting conversion.

Then I think of the funds put into it, the number of holy books left behind or found years later in bags and tossed.

I support the atheist on this issue on purely fiscal grounds.
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1SG Frank Boynton
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Personally, I just don't understand their objection to it. Iive lived most my life agnostic and I have no problem with people who believe in God. It's a personal thing, and why someone would want to deny someone their own belief is beyond me. There is nothing forcing them to pray or believe in any other way then what their conscience dictates. For many in the military away from home for the very first time in their lives, they need the comfort it seems to provide. We are asking our soldiers to do things no one else would ever ask of them and I say if the bible helps them get through the rough times, then more power to them.
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PO2 Religious Programs Specialist
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As an atheist AND a RP3 I would like to throw my two cents in here...

Many atheists feel pressured when a handout like this is offered. Sometimes it is met with hostility and sometimes its a simple "no thank you". BUT A lot of it has to do with the tact of the person giving out the Bible and a lot of it has to do with the past experiences of the atheist. Chances are this is going to be a negative experience BECAUSE of one of those two factors.

However, Proselytizing is never ok in the military. The Religious Ministries Teams are here to facilitate, not convert. Much of the time when there is a backlash against a particular Chaplain or a particular event it is because it crosses this line.

This is not a cut and dry situation and the topic here really isn't fair. Not every atheist wants to stop the military from making religious literature available to those who want it, not every atheist is an asshole, and not every atheist wants to end religion.

Best case scenario for something like this? Equal time and equal space for every faith group. If MEPS or the Chapel (or wherever) has bibles out and available then, AT THE VERY LEAST, they should also cover each of the other faith groups that are covered by the Chaplain Corps. Christian, Jewish, Islam, Hindu, and Buddhist... and if they are feeling particularly awesome that day then they can put out secular and other minority religious books.

Otherwise... if you can't facilitate equally then they should not provide anything to anybody. Just my two cents.
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1SG Unit Supply Specialist
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I agree just dont take the Bible. I may not like cigarette smoke but am I going to not go into stores that sell cigarettes?? Then there would be no where to shopp!!
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SGT Physical Therapy Sergeant
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SGT Jon Henri Matteau
SGT Jon Henri Matteau
>1 y
Atheism is a philosophy not a religion. Therev si no melodramatic cast of characters to explain morals innate morals and ethics. An atheist knows there are no gods, the term "supernatural god" is redundant. Our philosophy is that all religions are equal and should be treated as such. Religion is not neccesary to exist or co-exist. To assume that any one religion is superior than the other doesn't make sense. The Constitution set forth that citizens do have a right to worship how they please BUT they cannot insist that others have to follow. Nor does the government have the place to say which religion is better by advocating for it. The major and central issue here is that the government should not be distributing a biased publication that has nothing to do with practical applications of the military.
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LTC Stephen F.
LTC Stephen F.
9 y
Atheism is the antithesis of all documented faiths. However, atheism requires absolute faith that a negative proposition is universally true - i.e., god does not exist. Many atheists seem to favor materialistic solutions to all philosophical problems since the non-material or "supernatural" can not be readily observed or measured.
There are some aspects of the material world that are difficult to observe and measure.
We see the wind but do not really know where it begins or ends - this is a material issue since it clearly takes place within time and space yet wind has no clearly defined mass yet exerts pressure.
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PO2 Religious Programs Specialist
PO2 (Join to see)
9 y
Atheism is just an the answer to the question "Do you believe in God?"... And the answer is no... That's it... Nothing more, nothing less...
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CPO William Hughes
CPO William Hughes
9 y
LTC, I disagree with your comment that "Atheism requires absolute faith........". Absolute faith is an oxymoron. If things were absolute, nothing would require faith. I have yet to meet an atheist that believes in "materialistic solutions to philosophical problems".....Most atheists believe in the scientific method for addressing questions and most would readily agree that only continuing discussions could lead to a solution in most philosophical problems. It's not what we don't believe in, it's what we do believe in.
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