Avoiding Saluting an LT; What do you do when you see this?

Maybe the NCO just wanted to get his steps in for his fit bit and decided to take the longer route to his car. You never know. Don’t take it personal. I’ve had officers tell me NOT to salute because they were tired of saluting. LOL so keep in mind you may have days you will be tired of saluting us too.

laugh.

I think the reason eludes you because most NCO's have spent more time on the toilet than you have in the military, their morning bowel movement deserves more respect than any LT . . .1st or 2nd. Sadly we live in a world where people think that if one endures five years of college and binge drinking for that coveted PE/Liberal Arts/General Studies degree it somehow makes them more qualified to lead, assume greater responsibilities and command . . . hate to be the truth teller here, not even close. Over my 20 year career I watched officers commit most of the most bizarre and irresponsible offenses, everything from theft using their government credit cards, sleeping with enlisted wives (both married and unmarried officers) and even when given a no contact order, the Major still got caught again, the female Airman mowing his lawn in a bikini on base housing !! I saw mishandling and loss of classified, desk drawer LOR's for 6 or more weight management failuresand so much more - commanders/group commanders and wing commanders perfectly happy to attempt to bury it all as the boys club . . . just being boys and all under the delusion an officers career is worth more than an enlisted person. Meanwhile, enlisted career were being ended for the most minor offenses . . . and treated like they were a federal offense. I take great joy in telling you I reported and filed complaints against these officers each and every time I could. Bottom line, 3 years in the 1st Sergeants seat and you really get to see the hypocrisy and behind the curtain to see the clowns who are merely leading people all because of a piece of paper, absent any proven skills, after all, a pulse and a lack of a federal conviction and you are assured a promotion to Major . . .we test every single NCO promotion. I was in a staff meeting and had a LT think he was going to correct me, I was a MSgt at the time, by the time I got finished dressing him down as the nerdy no-nothing idiot he really was but failed to grasp the reality of it you could hear a pin drop . . . . not one officer/commander/CMSgt said a word to me about it. LT's are NOT respected, only tolerated as the necessary evil of spawning off some worthless major. What made me realize it was time for me to retire, saw a Major sleeping with an enlisted mans wife, when it was elevated up the chain, they ended up taking action against the enlisted troop, rightfully outraged that this officer thought his actions appropriate as well as his O-club wingmen. All that said, next time you see a NCO walk an extra half a mile to avoid paying respect to someone who doesn't deserve it, I will leave you with what I once heard a Production Super tell a LT in a maintenance meeting, the LT make the sad mistake of telling the SMSgt that rank has its privilege . . ., the SMSgt look him right in the eye and said "when you get some rank, then you'll get some privilege" !! While many will feed you some eye wash that the NCO is a poor example, understand that as a SSgt I supervised more people, was responsible for more in assets than any LT I ever met over my entire 20 plus year career . . . it should be YOU who salutes the NCO . . . they have actually earned it . . . . you haven't.

Back in 74, I was going through Armor AIT (19E) and a buddy and I were carrying this HUGE coffee pot. As we were walking down the sidewalk, the coffee pot was in my right hand and we wer approached by a Major General. My buddy saluted and I stood there with a confused look on my face, The General said, Private Rivas, I dont have the faintest idea of how you would render a salute under coffee pot. I think your buddy here covered it for both of you, Just the thought that you were wondering what to do is sufficient for me. Carry on men. Good guy .

Lt., if I was still in and saw you I would salute no matter what kind a day I had and wouldn't care if you was a BOOTER. But a funny story to this a long time ago when I was stationed at Souda Bay, Crete the Air Force showed up for tanker support for the bombing in Kosovo; well any ways a few us junior enlisted guys were caring long arms(M16, M14, 12 Gauge) and the proper way to salute an officer is to present arms, well a few times we would space out to where you O's would have to hold your salute and there was usually like 6 of us; well after a while you guys caught on and would space out and we would have to hold the present arms for a bit. My advice LT take it with a grain of salt move one you will experience stupid shit and that is one of them. If it bothers you that much confront said NCO and ask him why he avoided you.

There is a fine line between military values and personal values. In many cases these values overlap. However, observe which one a veteran gives up upon discharge. In a way of life (military) that demands you give up so much, it is moot and devicesive to speculate on the soldier's motives. Give him an inch of choice in an otherwise regulated industry. Each of us have a right to dislike another regardless of it's merit. He did not violate a regulation, he merely sidestepped it. A skill we all must learn in order to think outside the box and avoid rigidity in life. Contrastly, I prefer staggering soldiers enough to make an officer salute repeatedly as punishment.

Have a chat with your Shirt. I think you'll find he will be glad you help you out.

I was stationed at Elmendorf AFB back in the early 1980's---a lowly AB when I got there, a lowly A1C when I left. I was walking towards a bus stop one afternoon and was watching some construction work being done in an adjacent field; wasn't paying any attention to anyone else on the sidewalk. I was stopped by a young female 2nd lieutenant, who accused me of deliberately ignoring her so I wouldn't have to salute. I denied this, but she wasn't listening. She reamed my behind for a full ten minutes, warned me that next time, she would take more stringent action, and then left in a huff. From that point forward, if I encountered anybody on the sidewalk and was unsure of their rank or status, I saluted them---sometimes they turned out to be NCO's, a few airmen here and there, and probably at least one civilian, but I'd had enough screaming paroxysms of rage being brought down on my head---I wasn't about to chance another one. I would have saluted dogs, phone poles, and mailboxes to avoid that sort of nonsense, believe me.

As a Warrant I always tried to show the curtsey to our LT's, it also set the example to my NCO's that if I do it, you better as well.

Respect is earned, not given. I have seen men avoid officers when I was in. Not to get out of saluting, but because the officer was a dickhead. I have also seen, and have, hollered across a parade field to get an officers attention and render a salute at 100 yards. Even to some butter bars. So, my opinion, either the NCO is a jack wad, or, with all due respect sir, you need to evaluate just what type of and officer your are. I have served with officers that I would follow to hell and back. And I have served with officers that it's probably good we never went into combat. You don't have to be their friend, but you better be a leader. Sir.

Did you talk to this NCO and mentor him? Did you get all of the facts or only assume he was avoiding a salute?

Very simple solution to fix this problem. Just walk over to his car and stand there until he arrives. He will not only walked an extra distance to get to his car, but will still end up rendering a salute once he make it to his car.

Once he makes it to his car, engage in conversation about why he decided it to be best to avoid saluting you.

This may also be an indictment of that particular 2LT.

I'm sorry that happened to you LT. Its not about you. Its about him. He obviously doesn't get it. I can't say that there were never officers that I didn't want to salute, but it had nothing to do with their rank. I would never have gone out of my way.

Not sure why someone would hide like a child to avoid a salute especially an NCO. If it was as blatant you say, I would definitely have hurried to his car and ask him for directions to the BX or something. This way he not only has to salute you, but he has to get out of his car as well.

When I was a Captain serving at NSB Bangor, it was common for sailors to take evasive action or avert their eyes to avoid rendering a salute. One of the Sergeants in my company saw a sailor do this with me. He snatched up the sailor and asked me if I had a minute. He then placed the sailor in front of me and explained to the sailor that when the sailor averted his eyes and went out of his way, that I would form a false impression that I was a god and that sailors would burst into flames if I were to let my eyes and attention rest on them too long. He further explained that the last thing we needed on base was officers that believed they could set enlisted men afire simply by meeting their eyes and saluting them. All three of us had a good laugh, the sailor apologized, I accepted the apology, we exchanged salutes, and life went on. Marines like a little friendly messing with sailors. It caught on with the Marine NCOs to get sailors to render salutes to both Navy and Marine officers. It took about six months but the military courtesy improved greatly. The exchange of salutes is common courtesy amongst brothers and sisters at arms. When the senior returns that salute he is showing that he recognizes and respects you as well. If people do not want the military customs and traditions they should join the US postal service.

Funny story. As a new Airman, I attended follow-on training at a base that also conducted pilot training. As such, there were plenty of young lieutenants around.

Back then, during our first weeks out of basic, we were pretty restricted and required to be in uniform anytime we left our quarters.

To entertain ourselves, a bunch of us new Airmen would wander around base "hunting" officers to salute.

It was silly, but in retrospect, the game was borne of excitement over our newly earned privilege to render the hand salute. If we all remembered that saluting is an honor granted only to our military fraternity, I think this problem would disappear.

Unfortunately, but usually not unfounded, Lieutenants have a stigma of knowing nothing but acting like we know everything and are above everyone else. Most people who would deliberately go out of their way to avoid saluting don't make it very far in the military. However we as lieutenants also need to be aware of the stigma attached to us and make sure that we don't come across that way. It's the only way the stigma will change.

I love young and new officers. I don't try to avoid them. I really take pride in showing them what is right.

I had no problem saluting the freshest of Ensign's to the saltiest of Admiral's. Sir, you have earned your rank and title and are deserving of the salute. This NCO you speak of has issues. Not a good way to show leadership. Carry on L.T. Thank you for joining up!