Posted on Jun 6, 2020
Can an NCO or officer force their way into your room if you attempt to deny them access?
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Can an NCO or officer force their way into your room if you attempt to deny them access. I've tried looking on Google and couldn't find anything on the subject. Case in point: NCO says they need to talk to me about something. We do so with me standing in my doorway with them in the hallway. After the conversation finishes, the NCO attempts to follow me into my room. Am I allowed to deny them access, or am I required to let them in?
Army Regulations
Military Justice NCO
South Korea
Legal Services
JAG
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 92
96
96
0
Is the room in an offpost apartment? If so then its a 'NO'.
If its in your barracks and the NCO is in your Chain of Command OR on official duty such as CQ, etc then its a 'YES'. Further in this situation if you try to stop them, i.e. by closing the door in his face, pushing them, blocking the entrance by refusing to move etc, you are subject to UCMJ Action either Article 15 or if there is an altercation you could be remanded to the MPs until Courts-Martial.
By-the-by this is an open, though monitored, forum so tread carefully. Anything written here is subject to inclusion to any UCMJ actions your chain of command might take. Caution is the word you need to remember in dealings on the internet.
Final note: When being addressed by a person of superior rank, regardless of chain of command or official duties or circumstances - conversations are over when the superior rank indicates, not when the junior rank wants it to end. Since the NCO stated, "He needed to talk to you.", the conversation was official - not an area covered under the normal military customs and courtesy.
The old FM was FM 6-22 and covered counseling but this FM has been superseded by ATP 6-22.1, ADP 6-22, and ADRP 6-22.
If its in your barracks and the NCO is in your Chain of Command OR on official duty such as CQ, etc then its a 'YES'. Further in this situation if you try to stop them, i.e. by closing the door in his face, pushing them, blocking the entrance by refusing to move etc, you are subject to UCMJ Action either Article 15 or if there is an altercation you could be remanded to the MPs until Courts-Martial.
By-the-by this is an open, though monitored, forum so tread carefully. Anything written here is subject to inclusion to any UCMJ actions your chain of command might take. Caution is the word you need to remember in dealings on the internet.
Final note: When being addressed by a person of superior rank, regardless of chain of command or official duties or circumstances - conversations are over when the superior rank indicates, not when the junior rank wants it to end. Since the NCO stated, "He needed to talk to you.", the conversation was official - not an area covered under the normal military customs and courtesy.
The old FM was FM 6-22 and covered counseling but this FM has been superseded by ATP 6-22.1, ADP 6-22, and ADRP 6-22.
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SFC Barbara Layman
I would add a caveat to SFC Kelly's response.
IF you are a MALE housed in barracks and the NCO is FEMALE, I'm strongly suggesting tat a disinterested 3d party presence be requested. At the same time, if the genders are reversed, the same suggestion is made. Purpose is to protect all involved.
I had a similar situation some years ago while stationed in Germany. A Male E6 was looking to receive the SSG Martinez award and was visiting troops in the barracks. It was a non-duty Saturday, I had finished laundry and was ironing uniforms (I did my own my entire career). Since I wasn't going anywhere for the duration, I was still in pjs and a robe. He knocked at the door, I answered and rather than wait to be 'invited' in, he crossed the threshold. I, a female E5, requested that he step out until I could call for that disinterested third party. He was VERY hesitant and I was INSISTENT. We ended up calling the CQ. Later, in the presence of the 1SG, I explained my reaction/response. I was acting in the best interest of both of us. Top agreed. I think that young soldier learned something more than the 'value' of the award being sought
.
IF you are a MALE housed in barracks and the NCO is FEMALE, I'm strongly suggesting tat a disinterested 3d party presence be requested. At the same time, if the genders are reversed, the same suggestion is made. Purpose is to protect all involved.
I had a similar situation some years ago while stationed in Germany. A Male E6 was looking to receive the SSG Martinez award and was visiting troops in the barracks. It was a non-duty Saturday, I had finished laundry and was ironing uniforms (I did my own my entire career). Since I wasn't going anywhere for the duration, I was still in pjs and a robe. He knocked at the door, I answered and rather than wait to be 'invited' in, he crossed the threshold. I, a female E5, requested that he step out until I could call for that disinterested third party. He was VERY hesitant and I was INSISTENT. We ended up calling the CQ. Later, in the presence of the 1SG, I explained my reaction/response. I was acting in the best interest of both of us. Top agreed. I think that young soldier learned something more than the 'value' of the award being sought
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CPL Brian Baumgartner
SFC Barbara Layman - I fully understand your reaction in this scenario, and believe it was the correct one. But while I comprehend the point of your story, I am lost regarding the context you described.
I apologize but I cannot find any information on what that award is. A joke, perhaps? Regardless, why on Earth would troops want an E6 "visiting" them in the barracks? I cannot think of ANY reason why Joes would want that, especially if outside their chain of command. Was this just the E6 feeling he could flex and impose on others? I'm struggling to wrap my brain around this.
I apologize but I cannot find any information on what that award is. A joke, perhaps? Regardless, why on Earth would troops want an E6 "visiting" them in the barracks? I cannot think of ANY reason why Joes would want that, especially if outside their chain of command. Was this just the E6 feeling he could flex and impose on others? I'm struggling to wrap my brain around this.
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
CPL Brian Baumgartner -
I believe the SGT Morales Award was a real 1980/90s thing - in USAREUR
I believe the SGT Morales Award was a real 1980/90s thing - in USAREUR
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SFC Barbara Layman
CPL Brian Baumgartner - I misspoke - it was actually the SGT MORALES Award. The 'young soldier' who invited himself into my room was Sgt Martinez.
"The SMC promotes the highest ideals of integrity, professionalism and leadership for enlisted service members serving in Europe. The membership is gained through a rigorous and competitive process.
Among actively participating in volunteer events, the process would require candidates to study regulations and publications, build an extensive leader's book and present all the information they know to the members of the board. The boards are just as much about the participant's Soldiers as they are about the participant.
Sgt. Morales was a leader who knew everything about his Soldiers. Those interested in becoming a member of this club will be challenged extensively in this area of knowledge."
And, apparently it is still going strong - https://www.army.mil/article/190683/sergeant_morales_club_honors_professional_civic_minded_leaders
"The SMC promotes the highest ideals of integrity, professionalism and leadership for enlisted service members serving in Europe. The membership is gained through a rigorous and competitive process.
Among actively participating in volunteer events, the process would require candidates to study regulations and publications, build an extensive leader's book and present all the information they know to the members of the board. The boards are just as much about the participant's Soldiers as they are about the participant.
Sgt. Morales was a leader who knew everything about his Soldiers. Those interested in becoming a member of this club will be challenged extensively in this area of knowledge."
And, apparently it is still going strong - https://www.army.mil/article/190683/sergeant_morales_club_honors_professional_civic_minded_leaders
Sergeant Morales Club honors professional, civic-minded leaders
Four noncommissioned officers were inducted into the Sergeant Morales Club at the Tower Theater, here, July 7.
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I was taught in the two Active Army Infantry units I served in is that your barracks room is not yours but is assigned to you and as such is subject to inspection by any NCO at any time of day upon request. They can knock and if your not there or do not answer the knock they can use the Master Key (typically only the 1SGT and CQ via delegation can use the Master Key). If they do so and walk in on anything you are doing against UCMJ...they can also punish as it is a legal entry. Now things might have changed since the 1980s....I doubt it. This is the barracks regime I lived under....also abuse of the Master Key for "hey you" details that came up on weekends. I would complain about that specifically until I was blue in the face and though most NCOs were sympathetic against that....policy never changed. Folks that live in the barracks are at a big disadvantage in regards to privacy vs those that live off post.
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Cpl David Hamilton
Wow! in the Corps we had duty section every 4th day or 4th weekend. We not only had to have a muster @1800 in the evening for but also had them @ 0830 and 1400 on weekends. That's when the Duty Daddy would have us do the barracks or other required command duties. Thought all services had that since it was instilled since Pearl Harbor of 25% of personnel on duty at all times. We didn't have rooms like today, we still lived in Squad Bays with small walls. Rooms were reserved for NCO's and SNCO's living on base. An NCO or Officer can enter your quarters if it is a Health and Welfare check.
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MSgt Gilbert Jones
SSgt Russell Stevens - I agree in your case the CQ or dorm manager shouldn't have been giving the key to anyone without some kind of control. In my units if some one was going to be gone for any period of time I would ask them if they would like to store their valuables in our storage facility, and I had the only key for it.
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SSgt Russell Stevens
MSgt Gilbert Jones - I would like to have done that. I wasn't given the opportunity.
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Is the NCO in your chain of command?
If so, then, I would definitely not deny access...however, I would discuss this with your immediate platoon SGT
If so, then, I would definitely not deny access...however, I would discuss this with your immediate platoon SGT
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SSG Sharon Fields
That is just wrong on soooooo many levels! Sounds like more work to fill the pool up with liter than to just throw the diaper away. And what the heck was wrong with her husband? Oh my...........
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Maj Gail Lofdahl
Strangest thing I ever encountered was in a student training squadron. An 18-year-old airman had a 17-year-old wife. They lived off base, and eventually her mother and the wife's 19-year-old sister also moved in with them.
Well, the airman's performance declined sharply so the commander had the "Tell me all about it, son; maybe I can help" conversation with him. Turns out the airman's wife was pregnant--no surprise there. But so was his sister-in-law. AND his 35-year-old mother-in-law. The airman was the father of all three children, and the women were all set to deliver within 4-5 months of each other. The airman had a discharge quickly facilitated for him (and the harem).
Well, the airman's performance declined sharply so the commander had the "Tell me all about it, son; maybe I can help" conversation with him. Turns out the airman's wife was pregnant--no surprise there. But so was his sister-in-law. AND his 35-year-old mother-in-law. The airman was the father of all three children, and the women were all set to deliver within 4-5 months of each other. The airman had a discharge quickly facilitated for him (and the harem).
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Cpl Greg Berman
Maj Gail Lofdahl I use to dream about scenarios like this when I was 18.
Now at 59 it would be a nightmare. Lol
Now at 59 it would be a nightmare. Lol
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