Posted on May 11, 2023
Can I be denied receiving a 'Go' for a promotion board if I accidentally use gender pronouns? Should I get the IG involved?
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I recently just attended the E-5 promotion board and absolutely nailed it. Uniform, confidence, presence was on point. Answered questions correctly and to the best of my ability. Walked out of the board feeling like a million bucks. I am waiting for my sponsor to come out, and he says I received a 'No-Go' because on the first question I was asked I referred to a soldier as "he should" instead of "the soldier should." This apparently was the decision that prevented me from being promotable according to my sponsor, despite answering the other 9 questions I was asked to a T.
Is there anything on Army regulation about this? Should I get the IG involved? What if this belief is against my religion and I don't agree with it? I know the SGM has a transgender kid. I do not want to cave to using these terms if it does not align with my beliefs. I know the worlds' headed in this direction but this seems absolutely insane to me that despite acing a board, I can be prevented from promoting due to using gender pronouns. What
Is there anything on Army regulation about this? Should I get the IG involved? What if this belief is against my religion and I don't agree with it? I know the SGM has a transgender kid. I do not want to cave to using these terms if it does not align with my beliefs. I know the worlds' headed in this direction but this seems absolutely insane to me that despite acing a board, I can be prevented from promoting due to using gender pronouns. What
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 148
Ok, You said the first question you were asked, you referred to the soldier as "he should". Did the question refer to the soldier as a male or simply as a soldier? If the question was not gender specific, then perhaps you should have answered the question as non-gender specific such as "the soldier should". Maybe that was the actual issue. A soldier is a soldier no matter what their gender. Just something to think about the next time you go to the board. It's the small details that will make or break you.
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Short answer, no. IG has no reason to be involved from what you're saying. But, yes, you can be denied for your use of gendered language.
There may have been more to the decision of the board than you or your NCO were privy to. I would continue to push up your chain a request for clarification of why you were denied. You could also ask to speak with your 1SG about this, but get your advice from your first-line and PSG first. Either way, I would recommend a 1-on-1 with your 1SG. Think about this like an E5, not an E4. If you do that, then you should understand why this should result with some mentorship and clarification from your 1SG.
After going through your NCOs, then you can go two additional routes. The Chaplain, and your EOL (Equal Opportunity Leader), otherwise known as your EO rep. The Chaplain will help you understand your religious rights and how they merge with Army regulations and federal law. Then they can support or protect you if there has been any funny business or simple misunderstandings. The EO rep will instruct you on what the regulation says regarding all this new gender stuff and how it's supposed to apply. They can assist you with understanding the protected categories and in challenging this decision if you feel there is discrimination. I was an EO rep at every level, brigade on down. If your rep has any backbone, they can fight for you behind closed doors and ensure everyone is adhering to this new stuff, by the book. Times are hard in the EO world, or let's just stay they are challenging, at best. This stuff is very confusing and counter-intuitive and by default it inches into our religious beliefs.
If you go either of those routes, tell your NCO. There's nothing to hide here.
If it were me, I would be loudly, but tactfully, challenging this decision. However, I am no longer on the enlisted side of the house, so take my advice with a grain of salt. None the less, it is my strong opinion that you should challenge this. Professionalism and EO regulations are to be taken seriously and both are an important gauge of your character at your level. Yet, in my view they are often given too much weight and are easily skewed with bias and political baggage, sometimes with the best of intentions, sometimes not. If you want to be a leader you need to learn how to engage in mature conversation. Not just for your yourself as you seek promotion, but for the Soldiers you will someday serve. Someday, you may be the NCO who's Soldier is denied promotion for some slip of gender usage. How you will instruct them? How will you support them? The Army needs competent, caring, and convicted leaders who not only follow orders, but are aggressive in their leadership efforts and constantly take the initiative.
In other words, if I was your LT, I would tell you that your promotion board isn't over. You walked out the room but you're still being evaluated. How you respond to this denial will show everyone what you're about and what kind of potential you have. Your most important window will be how you act in the next 48 hours, before the week is out, while all of this is still fresh in the board's mind.
There may have been more to the decision of the board than you or your NCO were privy to. I would continue to push up your chain a request for clarification of why you were denied. You could also ask to speak with your 1SG about this, but get your advice from your first-line and PSG first. Either way, I would recommend a 1-on-1 with your 1SG. Think about this like an E5, not an E4. If you do that, then you should understand why this should result with some mentorship and clarification from your 1SG.
After going through your NCOs, then you can go two additional routes. The Chaplain, and your EOL (Equal Opportunity Leader), otherwise known as your EO rep. The Chaplain will help you understand your religious rights and how they merge with Army regulations and federal law. Then they can support or protect you if there has been any funny business or simple misunderstandings. The EO rep will instruct you on what the regulation says regarding all this new gender stuff and how it's supposed to apply. They can assist you with understanding the protected categories and in challenging this decision if you feel there is discrimination. I was an EO rep at every level, brigade on down. If your rep has any backbone, they can fight for you behind closed doors and ensure everyone is adhering to this new stuff, by the book. Times are hard in the EO world, or let's just stay they are challenging, at best. This stuff is very confusing and counter-intuitive and by default it inches into our religious beliefs.
If you go either of those routes, tell your NCO. There's nothing to hide here.
If it were me, I would be loudly, but tactfully, challenging this decision. However, I am no longer on the enlisted side of the house, so take my advice with a grain of salt. None the less, it is my strong opinion that you should challenge this. Professionalism and EO regulations are to be taken seriously and both are an important gauge of your character at your level. Yet, in my view they are often given too much weight and are easily skewed with bias and political baggage, sometimes with the best of intentions, sometimes not. If you want to be a leader you need to learn how to engage in mature conversation. Not just for your yourself as you seek promotion, but for the Soldiers you will someday serve. Someday, you may be the NCO who's Soldier is denied promotion for some slip of gender usage. How you will instruct them? How will you support them? The Army needs competent, caring, and convicted leaders who not only follow orders, but are aggressive in their leadership efforts and constantly take the initiative.
In other words, if I was your LT, I would tell you that your promotion board isn't over. You walked out the room but you're still being evaluated. How you respond to this denial will show everyone what you're about and what kind of potential you have. Your most important window will be how you act in the next 48 hours, before the week is out, while all of this is still fresh in the board's mind.
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TSgt James Warfield
Wow, very well said, whish I had saw you post earlier before I put my foot in my mouth on a few replies.
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1LT (Join to see)
TSgt James Warfield Haha, don't let the social media aspect of RallyPoint get the better of you. Do your recon before you initiate the attack.
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SGT Scott Moreland
SPC (Join to see) can you recall if the question used gender specific pronouns, or if you inferred it?
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Is referring to women and men in the Army as Soldiers against your religion? To the best of my knowledge the equivalent terms have not changed as far as Sailors, Marines, and Officers since I was trained for the Navy in the 90s. Were you actually asked to use "difficult for you" pronouns during the board or just a well accepted term for all people in the Army that demonstrates compliance with policy? I interpreted the theory of the decades old DOD level doctrine as if you consistently say Soldiers maybe that will help you to see just Soldiers. The transgender policy is not that new either, if your religion requires prejudice maybe you should not have enlisted. I retired from the Navy including several Joint commands and operations just before pronouns became a hot topic.I clearly recall before ANY board, especially such a JUNIOR board, the things the board were looking at were generally stressed pretty hard. I'll bet referring to your Soldiers as "Soldiers" has been stressed pretty hard 24/7. I'll bet there are GMT posters in the galley or chow hall and in the head or latrine and the p way and all over the base or camp. "We are all soldiers" or something equally awesome with the word "Soldier'' emphasized. You are now publicly whining about it. I am not sure you could ever overcome this public mistake in a Navy career, especially if your Chief community found out about it. I certainly would not want to be you. According to another comment even though your were reminded during your board you couldn't even follow orders for what 5 to 30 minutes? Now, as a junior enlisted you are still not recognizing your teammates as teammates with the easy button word given to you "Soldier." Somehow your religion requires the use of he and she. Believe or not Women in Services wanted to called Soldiers, Sailors, and Marines . . . even before pronouns became more complicated, probably before you were born. I recommend if you want to stay in the Army, you worry a little bit less about matching your religious beliefs as a gender pronoun-ist up against the rumored identity of the SGM's kid, and a little more about learning to be a better Soldier including listening to directions of your superiors.
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SSG Bill McCoy
CDR Amy D -- some attention to detail ma'am. He stated that he ACCIDENTALLY" used a gender specific pronoun. That doesn't sound at all like intentionally ignoring an order. How, pray tell, did he ignore orders for, "5 to 30 minutes?" I believe he said TEN questions and the first one was the torpedo where he "accidentally" was gender specific.
Tell me, have you NEVER referred to a sailor as he, or she? With your CO, would you be punished for what could be an only, ingrained speaking habit?
Tell me, have you NEVER referred to a sailor as he, or she? With your CO, would you be punished for what could be an only, ingrained speaking habit?
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SSG Bill McCoy
TSgt Gary McPherson I was a Navy Corpsman before my Army time. Heaven forbid if we addressed our supervising nurses as other than, "Miss Smith!"
Makes me wonder how Warrant Officers are addressed? They were, "Mister Smith," so how are female WO's addressed?
Makes me wonder how Warrant Officers are addressed? They were, "Mister Smith," so how are female WO's addressed?
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SGT Scott Moreland
The O.P. didn't elaborate if the board question used gender in any way that would lead to the use of a gender specific term, or if it was gender neutral and the SPC failed to follow suit. By inferring the latter in your own response, you erred in the exact same fashion. But yours was far worse, jumping into a tirade without seeking clarification, by a mid-level officer no less. Based on your response about religious "incompatibility", I guess you're now encamped with those who believed women and blacks too stupid to be pilots. To hell with partnering with the chaplains corps to find suitable terminology for all to put into policy.
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SGT David Schrader
SSG Bill McCoy - I believe that the soldier should have been promoted if that first question was indeed the make or break decision on his promotion. I can’t believe that there is any military member that hasn’t accidentally said an incorrect word throughout a career. If by not saying the word “soldier “ is a factor now days in our military, we are in real trouble.
This board should have promoted the soldier and then counseled him as to address this situation in the future.
This board should have promoted the soldier and then counseled him as to address this situation in the future.
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I'm so glad I retired when I did. This issue has absolutely NOTHING to do with being a good leader, soldier, warrior, or human. Our military is broken.
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1SG Cj Grisham
Which weak-minded, confused about what's in his pants waste of carbon voted my comment down? Something wrong with your tongue or do you just have trouble forming complete sentences?
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Wow! Just ... WOW! As COL Randall C. states, it's more of a "gotcha question!" His advice is absolutely spot-on; follow it.
I'll just add that it's embarrassing what our military has become. Today, I might not last a week if I were still in!
I'll just add that it's embarrassing what our military has become. Today, I might not last a week if I were still in!
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SPC Matt Ovaska
My son wanted to join the military. I said "No you really don't want to join" He joined the ROTC in college. He was the cadet commander in Civil Air Patrol. At the last meeting, the female in charge said , "I have to write you up for refusing to obey a direct order!" When and what was the direct order? he replied. I told you to get a hair cut. For years, my son looked like he was in Army basic training. The female's best friend got the scholarship. Thank God, he realized, Dad was right before it was to late.. I didn't even mention the female stress cards which they wave when ever they don't want obey orders. I've talked to quite a few Navy and Army guys that left the military for this reason. How many of the 30-50 vets will commit suicide today, because of the WOKE Military that dashed their hopes and dreams?
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SSG John Gillespie
This is the American version of Mao Tse Tung's Chinese "Cultural Revolution." It is going in the same direction and follows his playbook. The specific wedge is different here but the scheme is identical. Conversely, what he did in China echoed what the National Socialists and the Bolsheviks had already done in Germany and Russia in their rise to power in those States. These people are not terribly original thinkers but that is mostly due to their ideology being the foundation of a religious cult which seeks totalitarian rule rather than having anything to do with politics for the betterment of mankind.
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The responsibility of the board is to determine if you are ready to be an NCO. By your own admission you intentionally ignored gender guidance because it went against your beliefs. NCOs follow guidance as long as it is not illegal whether they agree or disagree. There are transgender soldiers and one could be assigned to you or be in your chain. You are unable to follow the Army’s guidance. You are not ready to be an NCO. The board did it job and the SGM’s child is just a red herring to distract from that.
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SSG Bill McCoy
MSG Gary Eckert - no he did NOT say it was because of his personal beliefs; nor did he say it was religious based. He posed a hypothetical question, to wit, "What if this is against my religion [...]?". While it MIGHT be against what he believes, he didn't sound like that was his issue.
As for the SGM's child, that's a valid concern of the SPC. I agree though that it's a red herring best left alone as even if the SPC doesn't care about that, it could too easily be misconstrued.
Seems to me, IF his sponsor knew exactly why he was passed over, and the SPC isn't misinformed or misstating FACTS, he has a legitimate concern.
As for the SGM's child, that's a valid concern of the SPC. I agree though that it's a red herring best left alone as even if the SPC doesn't care about that, it could too easily be misconstrued.
Seems to me, IF his sponsor knew exactly why he was passed over, and the SPC isn't misinformed or misstating FACTS, he has a legitimate concern.
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The board response was not about "pronouns" it was because your response of "he" was not even a smidge inclusive of your female battle buddies. Their response is not about trans etc. You should learn to use gender inclusive terms. "They" are everyone around you - not just men. If others before the board used inclusive terminology and answered equally well as you, then "they" nailed it and were deemed worthy of promotion. There are only so many slot - you unfortunately lost it this time. You can try to go all legal - but you better be 100% sure you can win. Anything less will brand your career in a negative way. Being inclusive is part of showing Honor, Courage, Commitment and Respect.
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PO2 Jack LaBarge
If some are in a Fox Hole, all might just believe in (a) god, know that they All Bleed RED and are all “Brothers” in WAR! Not Male/Female . But Soldiers
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The real fact of the matter actually goes back before transgender situations. When women started filling more roles in the Army they used the terminology to include them. When I got out in 2014 it was expected that in counseling and when referencing soldiers you were to userank and name or the soldier without actually saying he/she because if your not talking about a specific person it could be deemed sexist. You're also expected to not answer questions with "I".
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Do you only deal with male soldiers? Even in the 1970's and 1980's there were a number of female soldiers. You should have been corrected to use a nongender reference but seems a small reason to deny promotion if everything else is good.
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SGT David Schrader
We just addressed all soldiers by rank not gender unless it was an officer, then they were addressed as sir or ma’am. Even when female soldiers were still WACs.
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