Posted on Jul 26, 2023
Can my State (NG) fail to recognize my federal commission date from OCS?
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Here's my situation: I enlisted in the NG June 2020. Left for basic training January 2021, headed straight to federal OCS at Ft. Benning and commissioned July 2021.
When I got back to my state, I was on my unit's books as a corporal (?) for almost 3 months before they recognized my commission. When I finally got my promotion orders from the state, it had my commissioned DOR as September, 2 months after I actually commissioned. My question is, does the state hold precedence over that date, even though I was commissioned through regular army? Apparently LAANG had never experienced commissioning a person through Fed OCS rather than ROTC/State OCS, so there was a ton of confusion when I got back.
Is it normal for State guard to not honor my federal commission date? Because of the delay from July to September, I am 24 months TIG. Waiting on my scroll for promotion (L05-23/47 days). Thanks in advance for any advice or experience!
When I got back to my state, I was on my unit's books as a corporal (?) for almost 3 months before they recognized my commission. When I finally got my promotion orders from the state, it had my commissioned DOR as September, 2 months after I actually commissioned. My question is, does the state hold precedence over that date, even though I was commissioned through regular army? Apparently LAANG had never experienced commissioning a person through Fed OCS rather than ROTC/State OCS, so there was a ton of confusion when I got back.
Is it normal for State guard to not honor my federal commission date? Because of the delay from July to September, I am 24 months TIG. Waiting on my scroll for promotion (L05-23/47 days). Thanks in advance for any advice or experience!
OCS
NGB
Promotions
2d Lt
Edited 2 y ago
Posted 2 y ago
Responses: 7
In a word, no. Your state seems to have it backwards. A state commission needs to have federal recognition, not the other way around. I'm not sure why your state is confused.
I assume your DA 71 (Oath of Office) as well as your DD 1A (your commissioning certificate) show your dates in July when you graduated from OCS.
DoDI 1310.01, AR 600-8-29, AR 135-100, etc. are all pretty clear that the DOR for a 2LT appointed as an officer though OCS is the date of graduation/commissioning.
If you haven't handled this through your unit leadership, get them involved. If that doesn't work, start taking it up the line.
I assume your DA 71 (Oath of Office) as well as your DD 1A (your commissioning certificate) show your dates in July when you graduated from OCS.
DoDI 1310.01, AR 600-8-29, AR 135-100, etc. are all pretty clear that the DOR for a 2LT appointed as an officer though OCS is the date of graduation/commissioning.
If you haven't handled this through your unit leadership, get them involved. If that doesn't work, start taking it up the line.
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1LT(P) (Join to see)
I actually don't even see a DD1A. Only the course completion which is my OCS certificate. All of these documents have the effective date, which is exactly 2 months after my OCS cert was entered into iPERMS.
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COL Randall C.
1LT(P) (Join to see) - The DD 1A won't be in your iPERMS. It is the commissioning document that usually ends up on a "I love me" wall.
Look at the actual documents and not the date that is reflected in iPERMS. For example, your DA 71 will have the date that you were administered the Oath of Office, your appointment orders should have the effective date of the orders, etc.
However, the documents and their effective dates you show from your iPERMS record indicates to me that there may be more to the story than you graduating in July and the state not recognizing it. For instance, if you had a federal commission, why would the state put you in for FEDEC of it?
I'll send you a direct message.
Look at the actual documents and not the date that is reflected in iPERMS. For example, your DA 71 will have the date that you were administered the Oath of Office, your appointment orders should have the effective date of the orders, etc.
However, the documents and their effective dates you show from your iPERMS record indicates to me that there may be more to the story than you graduating in July and the state not recognizing it. For instance, if you had a federal commission, why would the state put you in for FEDEC of it?
I'll send you a direct message.
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LTC Trent Klug
Lt Col Jim Coe I had forgotten about DOPMA. I had a BDE CSM who held a reserve LTC commission at one point. Thank you!
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CPT (Join to see)
Not sure where my post went to, but I am reposting and copying in case I have to repost again: You should have gotten the physical copies of your DD1, OCS completion certificate, a number of copies of your orders assigning you to you station and training (the same order does both), and your 1610 in a small packet a few days before your graduation ceremony when you sat down and signed your DD214. I have never been on I perms - I did not even know that anything like that existed otherwise I would have vereified my own information long ago. However, in my case I have no doubt that the original documentation has been manipulated (removed). I will never understand why/how some people get their jollies from ruining other people's lives and families intentionally and not lose sleep over it. I, my family, and the few peers I still keep in touch with are still in shock over what transpired in my case. If it is one thing I have learned through all this (actually two) is (1) if the officers in the US Army make a horrendous mistake, they wil do everything in their power to wash their hands of it and (2) A quibble or untruth stated at the lower levels of the chain of command will be parroted upwards regardless of the proven and eye witnessed facts without any type of investigation. I found that out personally when I appealed to the Base General at Fort Benning after I found out what was really going on in my case. You will see. I apologize if my seething hatred shows through - I lost everything when they pulled their stunt and have nothing left to lose by continuing to fight for my career.
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This should be an easy fix. Tell your commander that you need to go to your S1 and sit on their desk until this is corrected. If he can't do it, then it's time to talk to you BN CDR. There's no valid reason for them to have your DOR two months later than the actual date.
Do not let them shine you one and stay on top of this. If it's not rectified soon, then tell your commander you are off to the IG because it's obvious it's too difficult for your unit to. understand.
Do not let them shine you one and stay on top of this. If it's not rectified soon, then tell your commander you are off to the IG because it's obvious it's too difficult for your unit to. understand.
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LTC Trent Klug
COL Randall C. Any of us who've been around awhile know this is absolute truth in our organization. Unfortunately it's a truism for business as well.
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LTC Stephen C.
Four other little known facts about IGs:
1. A special oath is taken, generally given by your CG. Very few Army positions require that.
2. It's a nominative position in that the commanding general must nominate you specifically to The Inspector General of the Army (TIG).
3. For detailed inspectors general (commissioned officers), EVERY OER ever received is forwarded in your nomination packet to TIG. If the nomination is approved, an officer essentially has the Army good housekeeping seal of approval.
4. It's a tenured position, meaning there's a time limit to serve as an IG (generally three years). Many think that this time limit is placed so that a detailed IG is prevented from overstepping. Personally, after serving as a detailed IG for four years (two commands), I concluded that the Army realized way back when that a person can only stand so much. IGs are faced daily with the worst of the worst of the Army. One becomes jaundiced after awhile.
When I became an IG I was extremely proud (#2 and #3), but when my two tours were complete, believe me, I was glad to move on to another assignment.
COL Randall C. LTC Trent Klug
1. A special oath is taken, generally given by your CG. Very few Army positions require that.
2. It's a nominative position in that the commanding general must nominate you specifically to The Inspector General of the Army (TIG).
3. For detailed inspectors general (commissioned officers), EVERY OER ever received is forwarded in your nomination packet to TIG. If the nomination is approved, an officer essentially has the Army good housekeeping seal of approval.
4. It's a tenured position, meaning there's a time limit to serve as an IG (generally three years). Many think that this time limit is placed so that a detailed IG is prevented from overstepping. Personally, after serving as a detailed IG for four years (two commands), I concluded that the Army realized way back when that a person can only stand so much. IGs are faced daily with the worst of the worst of the Army. One becomes jaundiced after awhile.
When I became an IG I was extremely proud (#2 and #3), but when my two tours were complete, believe me, I was glad to move on to another assignment.
COL Randall C. LTC Trent Klug
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LTC Stephen C.
Thanks for the courtesy, but no Sir is needed here, LTC Trent Klug! I'm just an old retired guy!
BTW, the Army authorized an Identification Badge for current and former inspectors general in good standing in SEP21. I'm fairly confident now y'all more know more about IGs than you cared or wanted to know! :)
COL Randall C.
BTW, the Army authorized an Identification Badge for current and former inspectors general in good standing in SEP21. I'm fairly confident now y'all more know more about IGs than you cared or wanted to know! :)
COL Randall C.
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Federal date of commission trunks any State dor everyday, all day and twice on sundays! They need to fix your DOR otherwise it will affect your promotion boards. You might want to consider transferring to the USAR...
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1LT(P) (Join to see)
I would be interested, however I have heard that process is pretty lengthy and oftentimes denied... it has affected my promotion, and have now been 2LT TIG for 25 months!
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LTC (Join to see)
the transfer to the USAR is not difficult at all, the NG will basically transfer you to the IRR and we can pull you in from there. Or you get a para/lin # and transfer directly into it. either way good luck and glad to hear they are doing right by you.
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As mentioned already, your commission from OCS is made official with your DA71 (Oath of Office). That is the primary the document the State (and the Army) uses to recognize you as an officer. If the date on your DA71 doesn’t match your graduation date from OCS, that’s a whole different problem.
Your State has commissioned plenty of people from federal OCS. I was the National guard officer liaison at Fort Benning (now Fort Moore) and worked with your state multiple times. Sounds like the people you’re talking to are new at their job. Sounds like also there was just a lazy paperwork issue.
At the end of the day, the State sent you to OCS to commission you and they should recognize your DOR from your DA71. Keep pushing back until it’s corrected.
You may also consider reengaging with your officer strength manager/officer recruiter if you haven’t already. They would have submitted your commissioning paperwork to the state for processing.
Your State has commissioned plenty of people from federal OCS. I was the National guard officer liaison at Fort Benning (now Fort Moore) and worked with your state multiple times. Sounds like the people you’re talking to are new at their job. Sounds like also there was just a lazy paperwork issue.
At the end of the day, the State sent you to OCS to commission you and they should recognize your DOR from your DA71. Keep pushing back until it’s corrected.
You may also consider reengaging with your officer strength manager/officer recruiter if you haven’t already. They would have submitted your commissioning paperwork to the state for processing.
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Update !!!
I emailed my Commander, 1SG, all AGR staff, and anyone else I have been in communication with during the last 2 years of my situation. I laid out every single correspondence, with dates and names, of missteps and concerns I had. I learned that you all are right, voicing these complaints and backing them with evidence has done more for me in 4 days than I've trusted my 'staff' to do in 2 years.
My DOR will be an easy fix, but a rather long process, just have to request it to be changed through IPPS-A, and submit the DA 71 and memo.
I also learned that not only did my unit lie about the status of my IST packet (I initiated this last August, and have been permanently relocated since January) but my unit had processed the packet with an enlisted checklist. DRU O-6 was pissed apparently, and they are pushing my packet through at record speed it seems like. I will update on my promotion, but my guess is that it'll be another month or two at the earliest. Thanks for all your help and the confidence to take initiative!
I emailed my Commander, 1SG, all AGR staff, and anyone else I have been in communication with during the last 2 years of my situation. I laid out every single correspondence, with dates and names, of missteps and concerns I had. I learned that you all are right, voicing these complaints and backing them with evidence has done more for me in 4 days than I've trusted my 'staff' to do in 2 years.
My DOR will be an easy fix, but a rather long process, just have to request it to be changed through IPPS-A, and submit the DA 71 and memo.
I also learned that not only did my unit lie about the status of my IST packet (I initiated this last August, and have been permanently relocated since January) but my unit had processed the packet with an enlisted checklist. DRU O-6 was pissed apparently, and they are pushing my packet through at record speed it seems like. I will update on my promotion, but my guess is that it'll be another month or two at the earliest. Thanks for all your help and the confidence to take initiative!
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My guess is, the Federal DOR is Commission date. State DOR is State Commission date. Remember, you have 2 ranks that are not always the same. Kinda like when on AD, your USAR rank and your AUS rank are often not the same.
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COL Randall C.
That used to be the case many, many years ago, but except for a few unique situations, all enlisted, warrant and commissioned officers have the same rank in the reserve component and the active component now.
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
COL Randall C. - Thanks, I remember that a friend of mine, back in the day when 12 months to 1LT AUS and if you stayed 12 moths more CPT AUS. When he REFRAD he was a brand new 1LT with 0 TIG. LOL At that time, and may still be, USAR was 3 years from 2LT to 1LT. USA varied from 12 months to 18 months and 24 months.
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When I left OCS for my OBC at Fort Sill, my 1610 still showed the paygrade during OCS. I questioned this as well, but the person going through my paperwork with me told me don't worry about it and that it will correct itself in time. I also signed on for a bonus of $3500 that was denied by the US Army as well. After graduation I got a letter stating that they were going to refuse to honor the bonus (stating something about legality) and gave me several options which included appealing to the Board of Correction of Military Records. Thus, I would not put too much thought into the written word that the US Army puts out. If it behooves them, they can refuse to honor pretty much anything - even your OCS contract. How do I know this? because it happened to me. Either they refused to honor my commissioning contract or they filed an illegal separation against me in an attempt to separate me as an enlisted soldier after I got to my OBC, take your pick.
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