Posted on Feb 28, 2015
SSG Parachute Rigger
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Pt uniform
The 1SG has mandated that all Soldiers within the Unit will buy the new uniform by May 1st.
Let me say that I do not personally mind buying it but can we mandate and give them a short suspense when the ARMY has already determined a wear out date?
I understand the you can always improve upon but not take away from but when it comes to expenses does this apply?

D. (U) THE WEAR OUT DATE FOR THE IPFU IS 30 SEP 17. THE MANDATORY POSSESSION DATE FOR THE APFU IS 1 OCT 17 (1QFY18).
ALARACT 209/2014

CSM Oldsen
Posted in these groups: 4276e14c UniformsLogo no word s FitnessLeadership abstract 007 Leadership
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Responses: 40
COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM
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I do not believe your 1SG has to authority to mandate that all Soldiers within the unit buy the new PT uniform by May 1st. He/she is responsible for the standards and discipline within the company but he/she does not have the authority to set or change Army policy or guidance. If he/she thinks they do have the authority then I would love to be shown the Army Regulation that allows this.
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SSG Parachute Rigger
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11 y
Roger Sir, I appreciate your input.
I am just trying to protect the Soldier who may not be able to afford the cost right at this moment.
Furthermore we are on a joint base which is ran by the Air-Force and we do not get everything in a timely manner. I am sure being in Alaska does not help either. It takes things longer to get here.
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LTC Latin Teacher
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Where is the CO here? Why is he allowing this to happen?
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SFC Retention and Transition NCO (USAR)
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Edited 11 y ago
I believe the 1SG has the right to make that call for their Soldiers to buy before the deadline…… as long as he is willing to stand at the front of the line at Clothing and Sales and pay for each and every one of them…. now after the deadline, the Soldier is all on their own.
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SFC Retention and Transition NCO (USAR)
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1SG….. This comment was made with tongue in cheek. That why I said if they were to mandate it before the wear out date, the person directing it needs to pay for it not the Soldier.
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COL Charles Williams
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No, a 1SG, nor a local commander for that matter, cannot mandate all Soldiers switch to the new APFU by an arbitrary date. The Army makes wear out dates for a reason.... One of them is to give career Soldiers time to react, and the other so first term Soldiers who are not staying on don't have to waste money.
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SSG Parachute Rigger
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Great Points, Sir. People who are retiring or not re-enlisting should definitely not have to purchase something which would not be utilized.
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SSG Unit Supply Specialist
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I couldn't agree more...
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Can Soldiers be mandated to buy the new Physical Fitness Uniform now?
SFC William Swartz Jr
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Technically no the 1SG nor CO can institute their own possession date. They can highly encourage it be done sooner than the mandatory date, but wouldn't have a leg to stand on if someone chose to wear the old uniform until the "drop-dead" date.
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SFC Healthcare Specialist (Combat Medic)
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11 y
Also, waiting to the last minute with all the other holdouts can present a sticky situation when AAFES runs out of the items. Most of the male new APFU items are already on back order at Fort Bragg.
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SSG John Erny
SSG John Erny
11 y
Thou shalt not piss off the 1Sgt. Who makes the duty roster? I drew 3 24 hour duties in one week. Me: "Hey Top I got money now to join AUSA and the 82nd Airborne Division Association!" Top: "Thank You"
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CPL Petroleum Supply Specialist
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My 1SG, XO, and commander all are forcing us to buy the new PT uniform b4 Oct 2015 when the wearout date is Sept 2017. Im getting out of the Army in Nov 2016. So what can I do since it would be a waste of money for me to buy the new uniform
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SFC William Swartz Jr
SFC William Swartz Jr
>1 y
CPL (Join to see) me personally, I would continue to wear the old IPFU and maintain a good relationship with the unit until such time as IG becomes a necessity and then I would maintain their number on speed-dial, but that is me and I am retired sooooo, take my comments for what they are worth.
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SSG Parachute Rigger
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Thinking about this some more after SGT Jim Z.'s comment; The ARMY has determined a reasonable amount of time to acquire the new uniform.

They most likely came up with that date after research on cost and production for the whole force to obtain it properly and all the pieces that go with it.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
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I know this is a silly question, but have you tried the "open door" policy and just asked the 1SG (or the CSM) about it?

I'm not saying challenge him, but hell, sometimes leaders just don't think things through. He probably just saw somebody wearing the new PT uniform and is thinking "#%^%$# rainbow formations" and said "go out and get the new uniform" without making the logical thought to phase out date, or mandatory possession date. If no one actually brings it up to him, he may never realize it until some E2 says "1SG, I don't have that kind of money, I have 2 kids, and I'm not required until 2 years from now." and he goes to his PSGs and says "WTF, why didn't you tell me I was all jacked up?!?"
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SSG Parachute Rigger
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11 y
If you read my initial post I stated it does not affect me directly.
I started this discussion to see what the community had to say.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
11 y
SSG (Join to see) Check, I caught that. I'm just saying, approach him and say "1SG, I think the 1 May date you've set might affect some of the troops."

I'm looking at it from a different angle than the 1SG can't adjust the date, etc.

Think about all the things you have going on, all the things you juggle. Sometimes your guys catch things for you. They bring things up you didn't think of, or through, and you appreciate the heads up. The 1SG is in the same boat, and "maybe" no one has said anything to him about this issue.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
11 y
WO1 Jason Tyx I agree, but this is an order that shouldn't have been given AT ALL, so "time for him to retire" may still apply regardless. We're in "Damage Control" mode now, so it's a case of how do you approach it?

1) Formally is either an IG complaint.

2) Informally is going to him, or his boss. I lean to resolving it person to person first, and then escalating it up "if needed."
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SFC Senior Ammuniion Inspector
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To all that read this...this 1SG is one of the reasons the Army is going to crap these days. We have toxic leaders amongst our ranks that do not think the rules, regulations, and orders from superiors apply to them. This is EXTRMEMLY sad and unfitting of a Senior NCO, will this action reflect on his NCOER, probably not but it should because it has effected his unit for over 90 days. Make this guy pay for his dumb uneducated mistake, the Army is good at making Junior Soldiers paying for their mistakes, but Senior Leaders can skate by day and day out. WHY?, because they have the experience...I call the BS card, if he had the experience here, he would know he can't mandate before the wear date. This is all I have to say about this matter. Yours truly...

A Pissed off SFC in Alaska
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SSG Parachute Rigger
SSG (Join to see)
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Strong response for sure. Your support is appreciated.
I believe some Leaders only think about making themselves look good and not the consequences to those under them.
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CW5 Regimental Chief Warrant Officer
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>1 y
I know what you are saying but since we did the Victory Run in basic training (1996), it was explained that I didn't have to buy the VR shirt but I will find in my time in the military that we will be expected to buy stuff that is not 'required'.
My first duty station also had organizational wear on Thursdays and again, I had to buy a unit T-Shirt.
Then in 99-00 we had the new IPFU and once again, we had to buy it. Oh and the wear out dates on the green jungle boots? Doesn't matter. We weren't allowed to wear those either.
This type of mentality has never left us. I think there are different reasons why the Army may (or may not be) going to crap these days.

Oh, and the 1SG was wrong. And a bit of a jackass IMO.
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CW3 Craig Linghor
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I think the uniform is missing one very essential item...the PT belt. Without one you are in grave danger...lol.
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SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
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SSG Parachute Rigger
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Very good. The problem with this uniform is that it is not reflective like the current one.
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SPC David Shaffer
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In my opinion, everything that is "required" should be issued to soldiers first, and then made the soldiers responsibility to keep free from defect, and replaced as needed.
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SSG Parachute Rigger
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I believe that we get paid enough to buy additional items especially with the annual clothing allowance.
There are not many civilian jobs where you get a clothing allowance of any kind but you still have to buy clothing for work.
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1SG Eoc Ops Coordinator / Ga Certified Emergency Manager
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Though I understand that your 1SG is looking to get uniformity as unit as quick as possible. aHowever the Army has set 1 Oct 2017 as the mandatory possession date for Army personnel. Hopefully your PSG (or you if you're a PSG), has inquired with him concerning the DA mandated date and discuss the required date.

Hopefully the unit leadership, will come together and set the example and get the uniform at one time as a leadership team, set the example, and then encourage the Jr. Leaders and Soldiers to follow suit. That would get the Soldiers into the new uniform a lot quicker then he current method.
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SSG Parachute Rigger
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I would not have any concerns with a plan like that.
My Team was consolidated into this Unit because of the M.O.S. being short with deployments.
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