Posted on May 14, 2015
Combat Pistol: Marines vs Army: Comparison?
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Marines Shooting the Combat Pistol Program Course of Fire
Marines shooting the Combat Pistol Program course of fire aboard Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point. Video by Cpl. Hector de Jesus | Marine Corps Air Stat...
I was looking at both the Army and Marine method of combat pistol. To be quite frank I think the Marines have a better handle on this. What so you think?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU17hG4zZvw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU17hG4zZvw
Pistol Shooting
Combat
Army
Marine Corps
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 104
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That is the most ridiculous course of fire I have ever seen. Creating disastrous bad habits. The NRA would approve of this technique.
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Jennifer Lee (Doerflinger) Hill
SPC David Willis please do not denigrate women by taking this person as a woman!
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I don't belive you can say one service program is better than the other (pride in branch aside) both the Army and Marine pistol programs are pretty much they same, teaching basic pistol marksmanship and stances. I feel it really boils down to the individual.
If the person shooting practices frequently and has good basic shooting skills than it don't matter. Like someone else already said it's about putting rounds down range frequently not just twice a year for Qual.
Also I feel the military could gain a lot if they adopted more of the civilian
IDPA type of shooting.
If the person shooting practices frequently and has good basic shooting skills than it don't matter. Like someone else already said it's about putting rounds down range frequently not just twice a year for Qual.
Also I feel the military could gain a lot if they adopted more of the civilian
IDPA type of shooting.
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PO1 Edward Pate
Totally agree! I think something more along the lines of 3 gun competition would be far more beneficial and realistic.
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Somebody better sharpen their military history. I will take USAF personnel any day of the week.
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Jennifer Lee (Doerflinger) Hill
SPC Scott Hollingshead Scott, auto-correct was invented to drive English majors over the edge!
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SSgt Phil Sutherland
For flying planes? Yep! Although Marine pilots are excellent. I was in two combat zones and never saw any Air Force on the ground out in the battle areas. In the rear with the gear, yes!
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MSgt Kerry Lundy
SPC Scott Hollingshead - I retired in 1986 and over the course of my 21 years of service I served 3 tours in Vietnam we didn't call them deployments back then. I got to my first base Tuy Hoa in Dec 1966 and for the life of me I never see any Army or Marines defending the base while were building it and our pilots were flying air support for the ground forces. I was a vehicle mechanic made no difference if it had wheels or tracks. I also rode shot gun and mechanic on our supply convoys with no marine or army escorts just us Air Force men. Second tour same thing only this time I spent half of it on an Army Airfield and we provided perimeter guard and air field defense in the Air Force sector had one ground assault in the air force sector which we(USAF) stopped and we only lost one man. Third tour same thing we provided our own Air Base Ground defense.
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i don't know what that hand waving stuff prior to shooting is about, doesn't seem like anything I've ever seen anyone do on a firing range. Also loading magazines at the firing line doesn't impress Me, they should already be loaded by You before anyone steps up to the line. Not everything You shoot at is the same distance either, different distances from the target seems more in line. The wand waving ? again, signaling what You are going to do prior to shooting ? that in My opinion is NOT a good habit to get into and what You practice on the range should be what You do in combat. Seems also keeping the weapon pointed downrange always for safety is important. I have qualified Expert in both the Military ranges and also the civilian with all sorts of handguns, semi auto, revolvers. The Civilian fire included also multiple targets to draw from the holster on. The Dept I served on qualified often to include even night fire. The same thing held true for USAF Air/Security Police. (now Security Forces). In both the civilian and military setting, the targets were not always at the same distance during the course of fire and didn't include the hand waving in either place. What exactly is the point of that ? checking to see if You finger are nibble or warning a enemy or suspect Your going to draw and fire before You do and give Him an advantage. I'll bet His only wave will be bye after He shot You !
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Sgt Joseph Baker
Not everyone in the video was waving their hands. Most of the guys were just holding their hands up in front of them. The point is that nobody has their hand on their gun until cleared to engage the targets. Loading the pistols at the line is simply a range-safety protocol. The drill is about muscle memory in drawing the weapon, gaining sight picture and firing.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
Sgt Joseph Baker - I disagree, I have served in combat in Vietnam and also in Law Enforcement (both civilian and Military) and would not even consider not having My magazines loaded beforehand. NEVER in over 40 years of handling firearms daily did We ever load the magazines on the firing line. With rifles He did have them in hand all the time once cleared to pick them up which usually was only for changing a firing position. Once in hand We could reload and continue fire. With Handguns We drew from the holster and reloaded with the weapon still in hand to continue firing. The point is to simulate actual firing practices and do it safely. Never was the finger on a trigger until You were actually going to fire. Earlier days in using revolvers there was no magazine so there we reloaded the cylinders on line except once Speed loaders became available and We could load six rounds at a time. I may add that one duty We carried semi Auto pistols with the safety off and a round chambered so it was ready to fire just by drawing and squeezing the trigger. In real life shooting situations the less time You took getting a shot off the more likely You were to survive. By the way I fired expert with every weapon I had fired, both rifles, M16, M1, Springfield 03 to start the list and handguns which include both Semi auto, 40 cal, 45 Cal, and 9 mm plus revolvers such as .38 cal , 357 Magnum, 44 Magnum.
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Can someone explain the tactical benefit of the head swivel after shooting? I was at a range in Afghanistan where some SF guys were qualifying on their pistols and they didn't do it. I've also never seen any Soldier do it at any range I've been to. I've seen some of my LEA friends do it however. What is the point of it?
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SSG (Join to see)
It’s to scan your area and break tunnel vision. Just because you have a single threat in front of you that you’ve taken out doesn’t mean you have more somewhere else.
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Sgt Mark F Jindrick
It was basically taught because most people do not develop recognition with their peripheral vision...situational awareness is c
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Coast Guard here. Yeah yeah, I know; who the hell is the Coast Guard, etc. I've shot with both Army and Marines that have come over to the dark side. The marines far outperform most of their Army counterparts.
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PO2 Charles Kokel
We are probably better with the pistol in the coast guard those of us that carry spent more time at the range with it. My brother who is retired army shot the pistol only prior to a deployment, so maybe once every two year. I was qualify at least 2 a years.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
I found on a civilian Police Department We spent more time at the range than Moat of the Military and qualified quarterly plus a shoot, don't shoot session plus night firing. This also included shooting from the hip level for close in and sights for more distant shots. There was also firing on multiple targets ie 3 targets on three quick shots a one drill. When We went to the range We fired off our old ammunition and were issued new replacement ammo for on duty use.
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Shake your dicks, this pissing contest is over.
But seriously, I can't believe the emotional investment in these comments. As if we actually care what someone else thinks.
But seriously, I can't believe the emotional investment in these comments. As if we actually care what someone else thinks.
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Ok Gents. The course of fire looks fine. Getting shots off quick and accurately is a good thing. I have read some comments here and agree with some. If you are close enough to your target that you have to hold your hands up in a combat stance, odds are that you wouldn't want to take a full shooting stance and you would want to shoot from the hip. Practicing shooting from the hip is huge and has saved my bacon. That being said, I know they are teaching familiarity with the draw and quick transition for when things go bad. Muscle memory is key. Tac reloads before re-holstering
Is something else they may want to look at.
Should they be 'Checking their six' before re-holstering, sure they could add that little step.
Last thing I would suggest, shoot don't shoot targets. One of the better things my Department has done over the last few years is to work on combat shooting vs. range shooting. Moving through a shoot house and having rage targets that have unarmed and armed combatants lead to good habits/decision making. USMC 92-96 current LASD Gang Detective. Semper Fi Devil Dogs.
Is something else they may want to look at.
Should they be 'Checking their six' before re-holstering, sure they could add that little step.
Last thing I would suggest, shoot don't shoot targets. One of the better things my Department has done over the last few years is to work on combat shooting vs. range shooting. Moving through a shoot house and having rage targets that have unarmed and armed combatants lead to good habits/decision making. USMC 92-96 current LASD Gang Detective. Semper Fi Devil Dogs.
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Sgt Richard Wynne
Several here have mentioned the hand positions... I don't think they are in a hand to hand fighting stance but are ( very poorly ) in a position to simulate a rifle and then to transition to the hand gun when the long gun is out of the fight. One of the views the shooter was doing a much better job of holding his mystic rifle... Then again who knows what the instructors might have been thinking...
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Sgt Joseph Baker
Shoot, don't shoot? My DI told me to shoot everything that doesn't look like a Marine. Semper Fi.
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The average Marine shooter and the average Marine shooting program is superior to that of the average in the Army. (Note that comparing special skills of special guys is different than averages) I'll leave the rest of the fighting to all the internet tough guys already going at it.
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PFC Bradley Campbell
from age 10 to 19 shot bb guns and shotguns, and was an above average Army shooter.30 years on and fuzzy eyes...still above average. plus a lot of experience shooting. experience matters and so does plinking.
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SFC Brian Ewing
How would you know that, do you have actual data to quantify that remark?
On the other hand being a former AGR Soldier attached to a Reserve Command, I have had the luxury of taking both Soldiers and former Marines that joined the Army Reserve to both Army and Marine Qual Ranges.
Here's my two cents, due to the lack of familiarity with firing on Army Ranges (which as we know uses pop up targets), the vast majority of former Marines weren't able to qualify (M16/M4 Ranges).
On the Marine Qual Ranges the Army Soldiers found the targets far easier to hit due to the nature of how their targets are presented.
Now as someone stated earlier that this isn't indicative of either service branch overall and varies from one individual to the next based on individual skills or the lack thereof.
On the other hand being a former AGR Soldier attached to a Reserve Command, I have had the luxury of taking both Soldiers and former Marines that joined the Army Reserve to both Army and Marine Qual Ranges.
Here's my two cents, due to the lack of familiarity with firing on Army Ranges (which as we know uses pop up targets), the vast majority of former Marines weren't able to qualify (M16/M4 Ranges).
On the Marine Qual Ranges the Army Soldiers found the targets far easier to hit due to the nature of how their targets are presented.
Now as someone stated earlier that this isn't indicative of either service branch overall and varies from one individual to the next based on individual skills or the lack thereof.
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The bullet comes out of the same end of the gun.
Aim matters, the rest is just along for the ride so long as the bullet hits it's target.
Aim matters, the rest is just along for the ride so long as the bullet hits it's target.
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