Posted on Jul 12, 2023
PV2 Medic
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Hello Rallypoint Members!

I have a question regarding disciplinary actions that I have received from my detachment SFC. So I got myself into some trouble with an MP (argued with an MP after having a few beers), not gonna go into great detail (I own the mistakes that I made) but I am confused about one thing that my detachment sergeant has done regarding my disciplinary actions. The day after my altercation with the MP’s, my detachment SFC called me into her office, she informed me about what reprimands I could be facing (which I expected) but she also made me write down my mother and father’s phone numbers and she actually called them to tell them how much of a dirt bag I had been (which I did not expect). I am a grown man and can face the legal and moral repercussions of my own actions but was taken aback to find out that my NCO had called my family to inform them of the mistakes that I had made. Is this standard procedure in the military or even a typical form of disciplinary action for an NCO to make?
Any and all input is appreciated!

Thanks!
Posted in these groups: Ucmj UCMJJag regimental insignia Paralegal NCOArmy usa or 08a.svg 1SGArmy usa or 07.svg SFCPhoto JAG
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Responses: 217
LtCol Robert Quinter
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Perhaps I'm showing my age, but I find it incredible that any military authority would involve your parents in a disciplinary situation unless they were directly involved in the incident. One of the objectives of recruit training is the recognition that the serviceman alone is responsible and accountable for his actions and held accountable for his/her conduct under the UCMJ. Including a persons parents in the resolution of conduct matters sounds like the sandlot "I'm going to tell your Mommy" reaction.
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CPL James S.
CPL James S.
>1 y
SPC (Join to see) - why did you hide your name, Lee Taylor? You do know your name is still listed in all the e-mails that notified me of a response, right?

so I'll reiterate (that's a fancy way of saying I'm going to repeat myself): https://dyslexiahelp.umich.edu/tools/apps/learn-read-write-and-spell-free
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SPC Wheeled Vehicle Mechanic
SPC (Join to see)
>1 y
CPL James S. - And all that proves mommies little tit sucker and daddies little asshole cleaner is u are just like a DUMB infantry POT and u ARE environmental waste.
And demoncrat ur the one that needs what u post not me bitch.
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CPT Larry Hudson
CPT Larry Hudson
>1 y
Rally Point does not need to read an argument between two soldiers or civilians. Find a site that welcomes such dribble.
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SPC Wheeled Vehicle Mechanic
SPC (Join to see)
>1 y
CPT Larry Hudson - SIT ON IT KID! When u are supporting using NONE military to try to get soldiers to change what u are doing U ARE WRONG PERIOD.
And I do not need a low life little boy like u getting into things.
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CSM Chuck Stafford
77
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After counseling and retraining, I have called a parent -- that was because through counseling I found that the dad (retired army) was a huge influence on my Soldier's life. Use all the tools in the toolbox; in this case, the tool was able to explain the consequences of continued actions in a more relatable manner to the Soldier. Soldier matured and was pivotal downrange...
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
>1 y
CSM Chuck Stafford -
When Our Military Forces Become Baby-Sitting Services THAT'S Gone Way Too Far.
If A Person Lacks The Maturity To Serve ~~ Toss Him Back In The River & Go Fishing For Another Whom Does..... We Don't RAISE Them ~ We TRAIN Them.!!~~
~~ Let Their Mama Finish Her Job First,~~
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CSM Chuck Stafford
CSM Chuck Stafford
>1 y
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney - It is a rich man who can see the dirt covering the gold nugget and not throw it back into the river...
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
>1 y
CSM Chuck Stafford -
And A Blind Fisherman, Whom Goes Into The River To Find It.
And, BTW: Not Even Close To The Same Thing....
And I'd Certainly Not Refer To Such A Person As A "Gold Nugget".
He's An Immature Older Boy, Whom Is In Need Of Growing Up,
NOT Raised By The Military ~~ For His "Possibilities"
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LCDR Aerospace Engineering Duty, Maintenance (AMDO and AMO)
LCDR (Join to see)
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the importance of keeping a variety of tools in one's toolbox. Doesn't mean you always use any give one... but having it available for just the right moment is magic.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
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Neither standard nor typical. That is reserved for only a very select few - those we see potential in, we belive are heading down the wrong path, and their NCOs have not been able to get through to them. And the Soldier in question is usually very young and at their first duty station, and their first time being out from under mommy and daddy.

Most of the time the goal is that one or both of your parents will lay into you and give you hell in a way that will get your attention. The hope is that, as your NCOs have not been able to provide that necessary "come to Jesus" moment, your parents will.
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ARMY RIGHT
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SSG S Dawson boy you just have to put your two cents in every response get off your f$$# keyboard jockey
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Is it standard or even typical as a form of disciplinary action for an NCO to call a soldier's parents to complain about the service member?
MSG Gary Eckert
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It is not typical. Not sure it is illegal though. The fact that you got in trouble is not protected PII. You gave her the names and phones numbers so she didn’t gain any CUI from your personnel records. Real question is, was it effective. Not in you accepting the consequences of your actions but keeping you from messing up again.
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CPL Brandon Gurney
CPL Brandon Gurney
>1 y
MSG Gary Eckert Well back in my day, Master Sergeant, it was called a barracks lawyer-but I digress. The regulations are signed of by a four star General if I remember correctly, and you are not an officer. My former rank is not at play, neither is yours-we’re simply having a conversation as to what regulations this Rear Detachment NCO should have followed, and consulting her Rear Detachment Commander is the right call. That’s my point.
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CPL Brandon Gurney
CPL Brandon Gurney
>1 y
Let me correct Myself, MSG, you are not a Commissioned Officer.
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MSG Gary Eckert
MSG Gary Eckert
>1 y
CPL Brandon Gurney Detachments are small companies in the Army. If his unit was larger the position would be 1SG. Detachment Sergeants perform the same duties as 1SGs in larger units. Contrary to what the OP stated what the Sergeant did is not disciplinary action. While only Officers can punish, NCOs have many tools that don’t require prior approval from the Commander. This is not a tool I ever used but if it makes the Soldier better in the long run it was an effective method.
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CPL Brandon Gurney
CPL Brandon Gurney
>1 y
MSG Gary Eckert So am I to presume you have firsthand knowledge of this incident and you are attempting to de-escalate the situation in the eyes of the general public on behalf of the command post’s POA? Rhetorical question only-that’s why I cited AR 360-1; it’s in my current reading materials and fresh in my mind.

I didn’t say it wasn’t or couldn’t be effective-especially in instances where potential court martial’s are concerned, but rather only in instances where the commissioned officer in charge is willfully informed by the NCO’s attempting to salvage a soldiers career. More power to the effectiveness of self-control on all parties involved I suppose-good order and discipline is key in mission success both on and off the battlefield.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
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UH... "NO".....
Once You've Obtained The Age Of 18, You Are Legally An Adult.
I Don't Even Think It's Legal To Contact Your Parents Or Anyone Else
Outside Of The Military Ranks, And All Discipline Matters ARE Military At That Point.
To Confirm, Contact Your Legal Representative On Your Base.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
>1 y
Can You Imagine The Embarrassment,
When You Find Out Your Boss Called Your Mom,
And Tattle-Tailed On You? ......
I Mean, The Other Kids Will Make Fun Of You,
And Call You A "Sissy Tank Commander".
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SPC Wheeled Vehicle Mechanic
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Well what I would do then is find out how to get hold of his mom and dad and the person above hims mom and dad and call them. Heck we had an NCO that had just come off of drill status and had a group of people he treated diff. from the rest. I got tired of it and typed up a list of complaints against him and went to all of those under him and told them what I was doing and if I could put their name by any of the complaints. I had almost 30 different complaints. Now some didn't want to get involved tho they said he was doing what I said. And others let me put their name on different complaints and I typed that up and took it up to DIO in my chain of command. Showed it to the SM there and he took it to the Major and then came out and said these are some serious charges, do not do anything and we will get back to u in two weeks and they do not end two careers.
Now B4 this guy had come I was put in charge of people for long term cleaning details, being put up for Co. and Post Soldier of the month and when I asked why I was being put up for those honors I was told cause ur a strack troop. I laughed inside cause I was just doing things the way I was brought up. lol
Next thing I know this guy is gone. No one says anything to me and life goes on. I find out a couple years ago from the guy that replaced him that this guy got shipped to another one of the posts in the state we were in to finish his overseas tour.

There are things I know to be military and things that are not. These guys would have had their mom and dads called a few times to for lack of better words, tattle on them. Then we could get serious In the system. I might lose but I can tell u that decision would have been made by me long b4 this point. And people think that I do not know what I am doing. Well they are wrong cause if I do not know about it I will research it and know.
Heck I did 8 months of research on what college I was going to apply to b4 I got out. What do u think I would do to win in even a tough spot in the military. I am normally pretty easy going and do my job. But start the bullying and u will have a problem and I will make sure u do not like it.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
>1 y
#1.. Do NOT Contact MY Parents, Unless You're Calling Them To Tell Them I'm Dead.
#2..Put MY Name On A List & Your's Would Be DIRECTLY Under It.
#3..We Were Only Military When Under Duress...Then, We Meant Business.
Otherwise We Did Our Jobs & That Was That.... I'm Sure Someone Must Have Done Something Wrong, But Nothing Too Serious Or I'd Have Remember It.. I Think.
Then Of Course, If Anyone Was Charged With Any Violations, I Don't Recall Those Either.
Again, All Of That Was Over 60 Years Ago, So I May Just Have Forgotten...
But I Don't Recall Much Paperwork On Anything; If We Had A Problem, We Just Take Care Of It... I DO Know Everything Sure Seems Different Now. And I'm Not Sure I'd Care To Deal With All The Bull Sh*t They Have To Deal With Today
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
>1 y
F8f828b1
~ Nothing Else Need Be Added ~
~ Stir & Serve Cold.~
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SGM Jeff Mccloud
16
16
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No, it is not standard or typical.
But I did it once, for the parents' sake, when my company had a Soldier desert from Fort Campbell a month after reporting from OSUT. Based one what I knew about the Soldier, I suspected that he had moved back in with his parents and went back to his previous job. And I suspected that he lied to his parents.
I called his dad (got the number from the Soldier's DD 93) to inform him that we were almost complete processing his son's AWOL, but that it would save him some money and could avoid a warrant if he returned to Campbell for a day for some paperwork.
His dad was shocked, and stated that his son told him he was medically boarded out, to which I replied, "Oh no, not at all. He had no medical issues, and a medical board would have taken a year to put him out".
I just wanted to give the parents the whole story and the opportunity to talk to their son about responsibility.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
>1 y
But Ya AIN'T Calling For Advise,
You're Tracking Him Down....
"Hello, Mrs. Johnson, Is Billy Home?
"We're Looking For Billy, Have Ya Seen Him Around.?
"BTW Mom, We're Gonna Jail That Little SOB Ya Gave Birth To."
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CPL Brandon Gurney
CPL Brandon Gurney
>1 y
See, in This instance-I can respect a decision by Command/Leadership to prevent an AWOL status from being declared due to many contributing factors. Primarily being that it appears in that soldier’s situation, they chose to avoid a ‘Rendezvous with Destiny’.
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PO1 Don Uhrig
PO1 Don Uhrig
>1 y
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney emergency contacts are absolutely allowed to be contacted hence the word contact. If I felt one of my sailors was going down a path that was going to lead into an emergent situation I can absolutely contact the emergency contacts.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
>1 y
PO1 Don Uhrig - ......
I Have Emergency Contacts Listed;
I Just Don't Want Them Contacted;
I'd Rather They Not Know My Condition.
I Prefer Pulling The Plug & Drifting Off
To Never-Never Land, Without Their Help.
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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Not common, but....it is a possible tool an NCO can use. If the Soldier gets in trouble, and the NCO can't find a way to get the Soldier in question to see the light, then what better way to engage the Soldier by notifying the parents. Then the parents can/could have that Come to Jesus talk with the Soldier. Look, we all do dumb at some point in our careers. There is no one alive, or dead, that didn't screw the pooch in some fashion. Take the licks, learn from them and Charlie Mike.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
>1 y
MSG (Join to see) - ......
STILL, Regardless Of ANY Situation, The Individual Is Responsible For His Own Actions;
If He Can't/Won't Do As He Should, Then He's The One to Settle Things With, But Contacting His Parents Is Down-Right Childish!! .... If Worse Goes Worse, Get Rid Of Him, But Don't Contact His Folks.... HE'S The Problem, Hold HIM Responsible.
Leave His Parents Out Of It... I've Either Been In Management For Other Companies Or Self- Employed ALL Of My Adult Life. (see Bio) ...And At NO Point Wouldn't I Even THINK About Calling On Someone Else To Handle MY Responsibilities., ESPECIALLY His Parents.
There Are TWO Choices: #1.. Do Your Job Properly ~~~ #2......I FIRE Your-azz.
There IS NO #3. The SOB is GONE....
I Did MY Job, Now HE Can Go Job Hunting While I Get Busy Replacing Him...
The Bull Sh*t Stops HERE. I'm In Charge, NOT His Fa-King Parents, Nor Anyone Else.
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SSG Bill McCoy
SSG Bill McCoy
>1 y
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney - You're correct ... when you're talking about "EMPLOYEES," but a soldier, especially a newbie, isn't considered as an "employee," and really, don't have the same rights as civilians. Yes, that can be argued, but the point I'm making is military personnel can't be treated quite the same as civilians when it comes to EMPLOYMENT laws. The military is full of its own related rules and regulations.
Come on Rick, he's a PV2 on his first actual unit assignement (his profile evidences that). We don't know the discussion he and the SFC had .... it was the SFC's judgement call that contacting a parent would HELP mold the kid into a better soldier. If we don't trust our NCO's ... well.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
>1 y
SSG Bill McCoy -
BILL... Having Been In Business For Around 27 Years & In Management All Of My Adult Life, I Just HAD To Check That Out.. BUT There Are Also SEVERAL Other Meanings, Depending Upon The Situations & The Individuals Involved....
Confusing As All "L".... Check THAT Out; It's A Real "Chuckle"......LOL.....
But Before You Continue, I Enlisted At 17, In Fact, On My 17th Birthday. And I Started As An E-1 Also, ~~ And Didn't Get Much Further...LOL~~.
Anyway, When An Individual Enlists, At ANY Age, He's Expected To BE And ACT As An Adult. Anything Less Is Unsatisfactory... When That Happens, I'd Toss Him Out And He Could Wait Until He Felt He Could Properly Handle The Job.
EXACTLY The Same With ANY Position, And The Military "AIN'T Hired To Baby-Sit Some Kid".
We Enlist Adult MEN & WOMEN... Kids Need Not Apply ~~ Go Home ~ See Ya Later!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What is an employee? The answer depends on the Federal law
http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2002/01/art1full.pdf
The dictionary definition of “employee” says succinctly that an employee is “a person who works for another in return for financial or other compensation.”3 Under that definition, independ-ent contractors would appear to be employees. However, the legal definition of “employee” is concerned with more than the pay received by an employer.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
>1 y
MSG Thomas Livingston - ......As You Stated, And I Agree:
"find a way to get the Soldier in question to see the light,"
~~ Ya Gotta Treat Them As We Do Those "Light Sticks",
Grab One Tight, Crack It In The Middle, And Keep Shaking The Hell Out Of Them
Until The Light Comes On..~~
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SPC (Other / Not listed)
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Is this standard procedure in the military. . . . ? no.
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SSgt Investigative Analyst
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8
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Edited >1 y ago
I haven’t seen this addressed yet, and I’ll try to make a point without turning this into a term paper.

All of us have heard the statistic that 21 veterans die each day from suicide. Of the two military brethren I’ve lost to suicide, their friends, family or co-workers did not see it coming. We all recalled our last conversations with each of them, looking for some clue that they intended to do themselves harm. Either they did not let on, or I didn’t pick up on clues. I imagine a lot of others would say the same thing.

So, if a young, junior subordinate in my chain had made some bad calls (in your case, alcohol and a conflict with the MPs), I might call his parents. Not to bust him at home, but to understand if there is something in his life that maybe his parents are aware of that his chain isn’t.

You’re right. You took your licks professionally. Good on you. And perhaps your SFC colored outside the lines a bit. Like SFC Casey O'Mally said, such action is neither standard nor typical. But I can understand her motivation for doing so.
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SCPO Yeoman
7
7
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Wow! It's not any standard procedure that I've ever seen or heard of. I never did that nor would I ever do that. It never, ever, even occurred to me to do that. My view is that you are the one in the military, just as you said, not your parents, spouse, grandparents, brother, or sister. On this issue I clearly agree with your view and feelings on the situation.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
>1 y
LOL... YUPPER,
That One's A Real "Keeper" All Right.!
Give It A Year Or So, And It'll Be Written Into Law.
It'll Be Called The "YO MAMA" Law!
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