Posted on Nov 7, 2014
SFC Paralegal Specialist
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Ok so there I was at a court-martial asking a Soldier why he was wearing ACUs and not ASUs. He started to catch an attitude, so I told him to go to parade rest. He turned away from me looking at my paralegal, putting his hands in his pockets.

My paralegal tells him that he does not need to be looking at him, but at me, because I was the one addressing him, and that he needs to show respect. As the Soldier continues to stare out at my paralegal with his hands in his pockets, I continue to correct him when a civilian comes out to where I was correcting the Soldier stating that she had work to do and I could "yell" at him some other time.

I was so mind boggled and dumbfounded because said civilian used to be in the military. I'm sorry, but the last time I checked the Soldier was given a direct order by a CPT and myself that the duty uniform for the court-martial was ASUs and an alternate uniform had to be approved by the judge, so I was doing my job by asking him why he was in the wrong uniform and then correcting him when he began to disrespect me.

I felt so disrespected I just walked away and sat in a room to cool off.

How would you have handled the situation?
Posted in these groups: Zgvwznrr9psdw5lzq6y7ihp6r9qhpdfhlbomkkkntap1slsxqwsblel onis9qdww00l q s85 DisrespectMilitary leadership skills civilian employment CiviliansHelp1%281%29 Counseling
Edited 11 y ago
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Sgt Criminal Investigator CID Agent
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Assuming you're JAG, the only reason the soldier wore cammies was because he was fat or lazy. ASUs are for his benefit, showing his resume on the ribbons, thus aligning with a jury of his peers.

Either way, as a defense attorney it looks bad on you for a POS to be in the wrong uniform, so I agree with your reaction.

The civilian had no authority over you, or respect for the situation.
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SGT Armor Crew Member
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He's getting court martialed, which most likely means dishonorable discharge, which means he's screwed as is. I'd let it go. He's only screwing himself anyeay
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LCpl Darren Wilkens
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He would have gotten the mess beat out of him.
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PO2 Aviation Maintenance Administrationman
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Old school corrective action would be first to take that "Civilian" out to the back of the CONEX and correct that attitude quickly. Second, I would jack that disrespecting POS up and rip that uniform off his butt. But that was then and in today's world and Military you give them a cupcake and a glass of kool aide and wait till night to get your revenge.
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MAJ Jr C
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Add a few more charges. Stack them as high as he wants.
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SGT Aaron Hall
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Proceed with the court martial. If the soldier wants to be an idiot then remember soldier is already getting court martialed and more then likely discharged.
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PO1 Don Hand
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A million years ago, I was temporarily as signed to be an escort at a restricted barracks. My basic job was to muster, and keep track of the various working parties the Sailors were assigned to. Usually this consisted of following a group around while half of them smoked and the other half picked up butts.

One day I came in, and there was a Lance Corporal standing in the P-way at parade rest. and all the Chiefs were in the office yelling at each other. I walked in and the Chief yelled at me "That guy out there is YOUR problem... get him checked in, and YOU deal with him, I don't want to hear about him..." So I did. He was a simple AWOL case, he just wanted out of the Marines. During his check in the XO (female) screamed at him ( and me...) about how while in a Naval Facility he would abide by Naval regulation at all times...

Now, this guy, never caused any problems. Was polite, easy going, Always ready, and even held classes on how to "Properly shine boots" Totally good guy by all respects, he just didn't want to be in the Corps any more... No problems. Until the day of his Mast case...

As luck would have it, I had a medical appointment, previously discussed, and was a little late getting back to the barracks. My Chief knew this and assured me it would be okay and if anything happened one of the other escorts would handle it... And when I get back, he starts yelling that this guys mast case was moved up and I had 5 minutes to get him down to the XO's office.

And when I go to get ol' Lance Corporal, he is in Dress White Crackerjacks... Um, WTF? And he's just standing there at parade rest... "Hey, Chief? You might want to come see this..." STFU, I'm busy, just get him down to the XO... "No, really Chief...." "DAMNITGETHIMDOWNTHEREIDONTWANNAHEARANYBULLSHIT..." "Aye Aye Chief..."

I thought the XO was going to explode. I really did. I've seen bad shit happen, and her shitstorm was worse than any thing I've ever seen.

His reasoning? "Ma'am, you gave me a direct order to follow Naval protocol and the Marines are part of the Navy, so I'm in a Naval Uniform..."
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SGT Jim Ramge, MBA
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As previously stated, obviously a reason the troop was due in court to begin with. I'd let the position of the court handle it with ALL due respect! Contempt of court reigns slightly higher than one would think and the court would probably oblige the CPT for remaining calm, with some time in the brig for the young lad!
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PFC Cannon Crew Member
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Beat said soldier with a sock filled with bars of soap, go gomer pile on his ass
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SGT Larry Johnson
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Remember old school military? Ask any Vietnam vet!
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PO1 Aaron Baltosser
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The civilian would have been told where to go on the spot quietly, respectfully and escorted out of the area as required. Then I would have been forced to follow through with official in writing reprimand of said civilian with appropriate civilian authorities. As for the Soldier with the same attitude as the inappropriate civilian...I would have done everything possible to make him available to be a worthless civilian instead of a worthless member of the military network. You can't save every member of the military, and the attitude of this one strongly suggests to me he belong in the category of not able to be salvaged.
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SPC Petroleum Supply Specialist
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After being in the civilian world long enough you realize how absolutely worthless a lot of the military dog and pony show is. You begin to realize that it at all actually hinders work getting done not promotes it. Civilians don't have time for all the military bullshit because in the real world you succeed or fail based on your skills not based on how well you can answer random questions about regulations and dress yourself. So I know where the civilian was coming from.
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LT Erik Sapp
LT Erik Sapp
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I have to agree with this. I am a criminal defense attorney. My first thought when reading the initial post was "the soldier probably looked more put together than a lot of witnesses I've seen in court."
SSG, the soldier wasn't your responsibility (unless he's your direct subordinate. Your role in all of this is not clear). The proper person to berate him was the defense attorney. Rather than berate him, that time could have been better spent sending him home to change into the proper uniform, or, if there wasn't time for that, making sure the uniform he was in looked as good as possible.
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SGT Justin Haven
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In today's sjw politics I feel you are fighting the good fight with your hands tied. At the same time this soldier lost his drive and nothing you do is going to correct that, put him out of yours and his misery put him out swiftly. He is on his way out with that court martial.
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SrA Jeremy Roy
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Then if pushing don't work, fuck it, write him up on another 15. Clearly this member doesn't give a shit about his career. Bury him in paperwork so a BCD or DD are his only options.
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SrA Jeremy Roy
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Everyone on your face and push until you die.
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SSG Heavy Weapons Section Leader
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Who gives a fuck? The guy was getting court-martialed already and was surely on his way out.
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2LT Jumpmaster Chief Instructor
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Was it his court martial? I'd just let nature take its course at that point.
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SGT Adam Turner
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I'd get over myself... This Soldier is being Court Martial'd what do you expect?
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Lt Col Jim Coe
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I see the original post is pretty old. SFC (Join to see), what finally happened to the soldier who showed up in the incorrect uniform?

I hope he was counseled and booted out of the Army. As for the Air Force Civilian, she should have known better than to stick her nose into military business. Hope her supervisor set her straight.
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SSG Matthew Koehler
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Hmm. Sounds like a courtesy patrol scenario...
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