Posted on Nov 7, 2014
Disrespected while correcting a Soldier, how would you handle this situation?
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Ok so there I was at a court-martial asking a Soldier why he was wearing ACUs and not ASUs. He started to catch an attitude, so I told him to go to parade rest. He turned away from me looking at my paralegal, putting his hands in his pockets.
My paralegal tells him that he does not need to be looking at him, but at me, because I was the one addressing him, and that he needs to show respect. As the Soldier continues to stare out at my paralegal with his hands in his pockets, I continue to correct him when a civilian comes out to where I was correcting the Soldier stating that she had work to do and I could "yell" at him some other time.
I was so mind boggled and dumbfounded because said civilian used to be in the military. I'm sorry, but the last time I checked the Soldier was given a direct order by a CPT and myself that the duty uniform for the court-martial was ASUs and an alternate uniform had to be approved by the judge, so I was doing my job by asking him why he was in the wrong uniform and then correcting him when he began to disrespect me.
I felt so disrespected I just walked away and sat in a room to cool off.
How would you have handled the situation?
My paralegal tells him that he does not need to be looking at him, but at me, because I was the one addressing him, and that he needs to show respect. As the Soldier continues to stare out at my paralegal with his hands in his pockets, I continue to correct him when a civilian comes out to where I was correcting the Soldier stating that she had work to do and I could "yell" at him some other time.
I was so mind boggled and dumbfounded because said civilian used to be in the military. I'm sorry, but the last time I checked the Soldier was given a direct order by a CPT and myself that the duty uniform for the court-martial was ASUs and an alternate uniform had to be approved by the judge, so I was doing my job by asking him why he was in the wrong uniform and then correcting him when he began to disrespect me.
I felt so disrespected I just walked away and sat in a room to cool off.
How would you have handled the situation?
Disrespect
Civilians
Counseling
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 380
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I definitely would not have left the situation although I applaud you for knowing when you needed to step out of the situation before you yourself lost your military barring. I would have continued to insure respect was given and told the civilian that she was meddling in a federal situation. Then I would have had it noted to the judge of the situation so that favor would not be in his corner. We have to understand that our military is not a democracy and there is a reason for that. Once we let this worldly B.S. get involved in our military we loose control and the cohesion is no longer there. No successful military has ever succeeded without discipline and cohesion. It has to gel as one.
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This old retired Sergeant Major would have had a very hard time keeping my Military Bearing. The total, unmitigated, disrespect would have caused me to immediately place said soldier under apprehension for DISRESPECT TO A SENIOR NON COMMISSIONED OFFICER IN THE PERFORMANCE OF HIS DUTY (TO A COMMISSIONED OFFICER for the CPT). Hopefully said troop would resist apprehension so I could USE THE NECESSARY FORCE TO EFFECT THE APPREHENSION. As for the civilian, I would hope when I told her to mind her own business and return to her office or face apprehension also. I have been out for some time but I think the UCMJ is still in force regardless of the PC BS that has taken place in the interim.
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In my day, he would have gotten his ass kicked off the planet. Not saying it was the correct thing to do back then but this is something you didn't see back then.
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1. Again tell him to get into the proper uniform
2. Tell the civilian in a pleasant manner, it is none of her business and to quietly leave the location.
3. Tell the paralegal to cite the time and date, and to record the exact conversation.
4. Tell the soldier one more time that unless he relents, apologizes and follows the lawful order given. He is looking for Captains Mast (ie. UCMJ discipline).
5. Write the SOB up and go about my business
6. On liberty, look the SOB up and kick his ass from here to China.
2. Tell the civilian in a pleasant manner, it is none of her business and to quietly leave the location.
3. Tell the paralegal to cite the time and date, and to record the exact conversation.
4. Tell the soldier one more time that unless he relents, apologizes and follows the lawful order given. He is looking for Captains Mast (ie. UCMJ discipline).
5. Write the SOB up and go about my business
6. On liberty, look the SOB up and kick his ass from here to China.
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I'd rip him a new A-hole if it was a Marine, but in the Army, I guess this shit bird didn't give a hoot about respecting you because of your attitude and yelling at him in front of everyone to include a former soldier who informed you in a polite manner to tone it down. I'm not saying you were wrong, but maybe the way you handled the situation could have been more professionally done.
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Does "at a court martial" imply it was for the CPL? If so, can you expect any less professional behavior from the one being court-martialed?
The civilian interrupting seems to imply the correction being given to the CPL was loud, maybe too loud - who knows, I wasn't there, but the civilian should learn to mind their own business. Anyway, you felt disrespected - by whom? It sounds like by both the CPL and Civilian. What did you expect? Just walking away with a word in response means you accepted it. Sorry.
I would have told the CPL they were bringing disrespect on the service, and on themself by 1) not following clear instructions about something as simple as the correct uniform and 2) by their lack of commitment to their own oath of enlistment - where it says "will obey the orders of the officers appointed over me..."
The Civilian - yeah, ex-military, and clearly shows part of what is wrong in this country today. I would have taken them aside and reminded them that there is no expiration date on that oath they also took when entering the military and in the future to think BEFORE the open their mouth to any active duty military member in the performance of their duty and prove their own stupidity.
USN (Ret.)
The civilian interrupting seems to imply the correction being given to the CPL was loud, maybe too loud - who knows, I wasn't there, but the civilian should learn to mind their own business. Anyway, you felt disrespected - by whom? It sounds like by both the CPL and Civilian. What did you expect? Just walking away with a word in response means you accepted it. Sorry.
I would have told the CPL they were bringing disrespect on the service, and on themself by 1) not following clear instructions about something as simple as the correct uniform and 2) by their lack of commitment to their own oath of enlistment - where it says "will obey the orders of the officers appointed over me..."
The Civilian - yeah, ex-military, and clearly shows part of what is wrong in this country today. I would have taken them aside and reminded them that there is no expiration date on that oath they also took when entering the military and in the future to think BEFORE the open their mouth to any active duty military member in the performance of their duty and prove their own stupidity.
USN (Ret.)
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Okay, where are the stress cards for the Soldier being court-martialed? I guess he was putting his hands in his pockets to locate them.
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I think you did right to walk away and cool off. The soldier was already in trouble so I would have just let him go in the wrong uniform, explained myself if the subject came up, and let the judges do their work. A guilty attitude if I ever saw one.
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I retired in 1994, what was a civilian doing at a court martial in the first place?
After my initial response I would have been in the brig awaiting my own court martial.
After my initial response I would have been in the brig awaiting my own court martial.
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