Do cadets actually outrank non-commissioned officers?

When I was a "Cadidiot" we didn't fall under UCMJ and no one knew whether to sit, stand, shit or salute when they saw that shiny circle on my hat. NCOs were asked to respect us as an officer (we were after all officers with training wheels) but when it came down to it we did not outrank them. CSMs just treated us like 2LTs - we were there but pretty much invisible and our volume was too low for them to hear us when we said something :-)

There's a difference between "rank" and "position".
While I was the HHC Brigade commander as a CPT, I knew I didnt "outrank" the Brigade CSM. Sure, If I decided to "lock up" the CSM, and make him come to attention, I probably could have (or not!). But when he told his boss (the COL), who happened to be my boss too, what happened, I would be in a world of hurt and probably I would have been standing at parade rest in front of the CSM later. Those of us who are "Mustangs" like myself have to explain things like this to our lower officers so they understand the relationship between them and the higher enlisted soldiers, so they dont ruin the bond of trust between junior officers and senior enlisted, who in my opinion, make the best mentors to junior officers.

A Cadet is NOT a Serving member of the Department of Defense, and outranks No One. He/She/It is a Civilian.

Yes. AR600-20. Asked and answered multiple times on RP.

They don't "outrank" dirt...They are recruits.

Cadets, once they swear their oath to commission as an officer upon completion of their academic requirements hold the equal pay grade of an E-5 Sergeant. However, they are afforded the respect of a Lieutenant as they are "frocked" to and sometimes do hold positions as Platoon Leaders in Reserve or National Guard units. This is not to be confused with those who are Officer Candidates at OCS. All OCS candidates are NCOs or Warrant Officers seeking a commission. In addition, and especially in today's time - given the fact that we have been at war since 9-11-01... there are quite a few Cadets who are prior service and are likely Sergeants going through the Green to Gold program, so while they may be Cadets currently - it is smart to look on their right shoulder to determine if they have the requisite experience to challenge conventional wisdom of NCOs currently serving. If not, then I am certain a valuable lesson will happen for the Cadet - one in which he or she will come to appreciate when they become commissioned as a Lieutenant... and hopefully a caring NCO properly educates and trains the Cadet before they become commissioned and are responsible for troops.

I served 7 years in the military achieving the rank of E-5 Sergeant before earning my commission through ROTC. By that time, I was keenly aware that my position as a Cadet and as a future officer was a partnership with my Platoon Sergeant and my Section Chiefs - NCO Squad Leaders and the Warrant Officer assigned to us. At 24 years old at that time, while I had 7 years of experience by then, I realized that I still had much to learn from those who had spent 10, 12, 15, and 22 years of service - and that my leadership experience would only be enhanced through their education and training and shared wisdom. At the end of the day, I was the Lieutenant / Platoon Leader - which meant I was responsible for ensuring the platoon was well resourced to accomplish our mission and that we received all the necessary information to proceed in the right direction the command needed us to achieve mission success. At the same time, I was the final stop for any ass-chewings that rolled downhill... if the Company Commander, Battalion Commander, or Brigade Commander - and in one instance the Corps Commander... the buck stopped with me and I shielded the Platoon Sergeant and my others NCOs and the Warrant. Sometimes those chewings were nothing more than to see how I would react... I didn't know that then. As for the Corps Commander - he had the wrong platoon - but I was smart enough to just roll with the punches, and at the same time play the role of a dumb - new Lieutenant - which in turn minimized the impact and gained a pat on the shoulder and chin-up from the 3 star along with a coin. The Lieutenant who deserved that chewing out owed me big time!

Lastly, I stayed out of the way when First Sergeant, the Command Sergeant Major at Battalion and Brigade level came down to tune up the NCOs - as long as it was being applied equally across other platoons. I figured this was how NCOs learn to become First Sergeants and Command Sergeants Major. However, there was one time on my very first day as a platoon leader that the Battalion CSM had come down to our unit arms room in the basement and decided to have a lights out tune up party with the NCOs and platoon sergeant... the CSM figured I was a new NCO (line sergeant without having met me) - but he recognized me as a new face... we didn't have on BDU tops (so no rank or name) - the CSM in his loving self came over and said who are you "MFer" and gave me the knuckled chest greeting as I didn't speak loud enough - along with a few more three and four letter words of endearment. Truth be told, I was still in the NCO mindset that I had forgotten at that moment I was a Lieutenant and I was locked up at parade rest (trained to fear the presence of any CSM)... this one was definitely a force to be reckoned with. The platoon sergeant spoke up after a few minutes of me being thrashed and interrupted the CSM to inform him I was the new Lieutenant! The CSM stopped the thrashing, turned on all the lights, and asked: "LT, why the F didn't you tell me you were the new LT?" I said because when you entered the room I forgot about being a Lieutenant and went back into Sergeant mode. The CSM had been in for nearly 30 years (my father's age) - and from that moment on I had his respect and there wasn't anything me or my Platoon could not get from the Battalion. This wasn't gained from a position of exploitation because of this incident (that CSM could have cared less, and I was more professional than that)... in-fact he came around quite often for thrashing sessions with us - and I equally participated in these extra workouts and mule-kick sessions! At the same time, when missions came down and a team was needed - the CSM always gave us the missions because he trusted us which meant the Colonel trusted us and that influence carried through the Company Commander.

Long stories - I know, but for any Cadet or young NCO or new Lieutenant reading this, it is meant to convey that Cadets and newly commissioned Lieutenants have a learning curve, and they should be coachable and have NCOs who are willing to coach them. The objective is to mold a leader who will not crumble and will stand up for his or her platoon - even if they are about to be crucified by senior-level officers - or a ruthless CSM with plenty of battle scars. In time, that Lieutenant may one day become a General - and may have to lead thousands of troops and stand up to politicians or bureaucratic leaders from other agencies attempting to impose their will on our Army.

Technically they do according to regulations, but in practice they don't. I would also say the same about 2LTs. They're in charge on paper, but in reality the PSG runs the platoon. Officers don't really know what they're doing until it's about time for them to move up to XO or an S-Shop. It's kind of a sad irony that a fresh faced college kid is granted, by virtue of a degree, authority over experienced NCOs.

I chalk this up to more “weird crap the Army does”.

I’ve heard of Cadets and OCS candidates in the Army being “yes sired” and saluted so what you claim doesn’t sound out of the norms. But the Army is also the org that makes people in PT gear walk around in the middle of the day with a glow strap on and salute in PT gear.

These things are what make Marines belly laugh while shaking their heads. Pointless stuff that drives people to EAS

I was a SMP cadet. One of the last in our state to actually get put in a unit (all SMP Cadets in our state drill at Recruit Sustainment Progam Drills). I was in an infantry unit and the experience was similar to being a pledge in a fraternity. If you’re worth a shit as a soldier and a decent human being that understands the actual role of a PL and PSG then you’d learn a lot from your unit. 99% of cadets think they’re special and it’s their downfall. Same as when they get the bar and lose their minds. Remember, you’re always boot to somebody.

I consider Cadets as an E-5. That's their pay grade. They are treated with respect and mentoring. I have never had one try and pull rank on me and that's a good thing because I don't let 2 LT's pull that crap, let alone a college boy, or girl, for you pronoun Nazis. I have traveled many miles because i was invited to be a new officers 1st salute.