Posted on Oct 24, 2017
Do cadets actually outrank non-commissioned officers?
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I deal with cadets a lot, and they insist they out "rank" every NCO in the army. My usual response is somewhere around the guides of "uh-huh." Can I get some clarity of this?
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 1044
Nope nope nope.
A cadet or Midshipman Is a student. Until they are commissioned, they are a college student. No rank, no privilege!
A cadet or Midshipman Is a student. Until they are commissioned, they are a college student. No rank, no privilege!
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I don't know about the Army, as I was Navy. I didn't attend Annapolis or commisssion through ROTC; I went to Officer Candidate School. So that was the only time I would have been "a cadet." For pay purposes, we were classified as an E-5.
Also, while at OCS we were required to salute all officers, but nobody ever saluted us. Right next to our school building was the one where Dentists, Lawyers, etc. had their initial training. Contrasting from us, they were commissioned at the start of their indoctrination training. We OCS people always had fun approaching the chow hall when a bunch of dentists or what-not were coming out. It was easy to walk briskly holding a salute, and it was pretty funny watching them struggle to return that salute! They just had no practice yet ....
During my time in the fleet we had cadets (midshipmen) from USNA or ROTC schools for summer training come aboard. I don't remember anything unusual about that. Of course, onboard the ship, the actual practice of saluting was much more rare. We usually faced that walking around the base.
Also, while at OCS we were required to salute all officers, but nobody ever saluted us. Right next to our school building was the one where Dentists, Lawyers, etc. had their initial training. Contrasting from us, they were commissioned at the start of their indoctrination training. We OCS people always had fun approaching the chow hall when a bunch of dentists or what-not were coming out. It was easy to walk briskly holding a salute, and it was pretty funny watching them struggle to return that salute! They just had no practice yet ....
During my time in the fleet we had cadets (midshipmen) from USNA or ROTC schools for summer training come aboard. I don't remember anything unusual about that. Of course, onboard the ship, the actual practice of saluting was much more rare. We usually faced that walking around the base.
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This has to be trolling, otherwise the officer posting it six years ago was the most incompetent individual to ever sleep through pre-commissioning training as well has having slept through multiple briefings at MCoE.
He claims to "deal with cadets a lot" which would imply that he is in a position where this would be part of his assigned duties. I realize that standards at the MCoE declined after it was taken over by the Infantry School, but even so it seems unbelievable that anyone in a position to "deal with cadets a lot" would not have been briefed on this exact point.
He claims to "deal with cadets a lot" which would imply that he is in a position where this would be part of his assigned duties. I realize that standards at the MCoE declined after it was taken over by the Infantry School, but even so it seems unbelievable that anyone in a position to "deal with cadets a lot" would not have been briefed on this exact point.
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Suspended Profile
Technically….Cadets don’t out rank anyone SGT or above because they have not been commissioned. Until they commission they can potentially enter service as an NCO/SGT.
MSG Thomas Currie
Nice to know you have an opinion -- without ever having been in a position where your opinion on this specific question mattered to you or anyone else.
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Suspended Profile
MSG Thomas Currie Nice to know that there are still retirees who think they’re prior association with the military gives them a right to be an arrogant jerk.
MSG Thomas Currie
1SG John Tackett - Apparently you think that right is reserved to incompetent NCOs
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Reminds me of the time my father, a USAF Chief Master Sergeant, Korea and Vietnam War veteran, and I were walking down a sidewalk when my dad and I heard a "Hey you," followed by another "Hey you." (We were on a sidewalk next to a two lane street, on base, with pull-in, not parallel parking on both sides. My dad was a large man with a flat top, whitewall haircut in starched fatigues, bloused boots with large, full color, six- stripes and two chevrons on each sleeve. The other person was in Class A uniform with a piss-cutter cap.) My father turned, looked in the direction of the shouts when we heard, "Yeah, I'm talking to you." My dad looked at me and said, "Wait here, I'll be right back."
He double-timed across the street, ran up to the other person, came to attention, snapped off a hardcore salute and a "discussion" ensued. As it progressed, my father was leaning forward, while the "hey you guy" started leaning further and further backward. At the conclusion of their discussion, my dad took a step backwards, snapped off another salute and walked back across the street. When he got back to me, I asked him, "Who was that?"
My dad didn't answer, but said, "When you graduate from the Academy, you'd better never refer to an Air Force Chief as 'Hey you.' If you do and he doesn't rip your ass off, I will."
Apparently, my dad had a discussion with his boss and wing commander, one of seven full colonels on that base. I had met his wing commander, a fighter pilot - an Ace with six kills in WWII and two in Korea, COL Billy Edens. COL Edens told me, "If you, as a second lieutenant, do such a thing, your career is toast; colonels don't even get away with s**t like that." Lesson learned.
He double-timed across the street, ran up to the other person, came to attention, snapped off a hardcore salute and a "discussion" ensued. As it progressed, my father was leaning forward, while the "hey you guy" started leaning further and further backward. At the conclusion of their discussion, my dad took a step backwards, snapped off another salute and walked back across the street. When he got back to me, I asked him, "Who was that?"
My dad didn't answer, but said, "When you graduate from the Academy, you'd better never refer to an Air Force Chief as 'Hey you.' If you do and he doesn't rip your ass off, I will."
Apparently, my dad had a discussion with his boss and wing commander, one of seven full colonels on that base. I had met his wing commander, a fighter pilot - an Ace with six kills in WWII and two in Korea, COL Billy Edens. COL Edens told me, "If you, as a second lieutenant, do such a thing, your career is toast; colonels don't even get away with s**t like that." Lesson learned.
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Cadets are not officers yet. Within the corps of cadets other cadets might have more authority over other cadets, but not over active duty NCO's. When I was an MP I had an incident involving a cadet who was on leave during the holiday season. I stopped him for speeding .He tried to tell me that i had no authority to stop him. I reminded him not oily as NCO (I was a SGT then but not confuse his position as a cadet with my authority as an MP).
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No you're only in the military when you begin your commission. A cadet is still just a cadet this was told to me by a Major General. Just like enlisted have a basic active start date if you haven't begun your commission then you're basically a glorified student. Only officers with the rank of 2LT or higher may give orders because they actually hold a rank.
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I believe the United States Code title 10 can outline the answers. Cadets and Midshipmen are unique of course and they should be reminded of that whilst they are in college.
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