Posted on Oct 24, 2017
Do cadets actually outrank non-commissioned officers?
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I deal with cadets a lot, and they insist they out "rank" every NCO in the army. My usual response is somewhere around the guides of "uh-huh." Can I get some clarity of this?
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 1044
For some real history the Royal Navy has ship logs back when ships were wooden and men were steel. After a good sea battle when 36 pounders twice the speed of sound could go over two miles and still penetrate two feet of oak it wasn’t unusual for most of the men and all of the officers to be dead. Both ships sinking and the few surviving were from below the water line. It’s documented in a few surviving ships logs. The gunner who was in the powder magazine, maybe the ship’s surgeon, a few who manned the cannons, the pilot from the chart room, a few misc. crew and the junior midshipmen who relayed orders to the lower gun deck. The midshipmen was the ‘almost’ officer in charge and was responsible for all the men, life boat(s) and ship’s log. He was also probably the only one who could use a sextant and navigate. The ones that survived were the crew who made sure he didn’t fail and the midshipmen who let them let him excel. The jr midshipman was maybe 12 years old in command of guys sometimes three times his age. These are great stories for great education and entertainment that shouldn’t be forgotten.
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FOOLISH IS ANY OFFICER WHO THROWS HIS RANK AROUND LIKE M&M'S AND HAS A LITTLE WAR GOING WITH NCO'S KNOWING THAT THEY ARE THE ONES WHO GREESE THE WHEELS OF THE MILITARY. I ALWAYS RESPECTED MY NCO'S BECAUSE THEY HELD IN THEIR HANDS THE LIKES AND DISLIKES THAT COULD WIND UP IN YOUR OFFICER EFFICIENCY REPORT RECORDS. NEVER BITE THE HAND THAT HOLDS YOUR CAREER IN THEIRS.
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Yes. Google is your friend even in uniform. It led me to 600-20 that confirms your answer.
https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN32931-AR_600-20-004-WEB-6.pdf
https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN32931-AR_600-20-004-WEB-6.pdf
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I am a retired SAF master sergeant (E-7) who's last assignment was the Air Force Academy. The answer is NO. The cadets are students and are not members of the USAF. Until they graduate in June to become a 2d Lt in the Air Force, do they outrank and enlisted person. IMO both cadets and enlisted respect each other without regard for their rank.
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The Correct Answer is Yes,
still any NCO or Chief worth his salt, , can handle the cadet or Junior Officer that wants to play games. I myself knew I had become a Chief when I was able to get any officer to say thankyou, after I just got done telling him or her, very respectfully that what he or she wanted was not ever going to happen, because it was a bad ideal, or it was unsafe, they would be back in there cabin, or 3/4 of the way down the passage way before they realized what I had told them . they would always double back to find out why, and how I did that
why was this so easy ?
the answer is simple, the majority of Cadets, and junior officers do not know there ass from a hole in the ground when right out of the Academy. it not there fault, it was no different for me out of boot camp.
this is why the smart Cadet, and Junior officer right out of the Academy will find a Good NCO to mentor him or her, because they realize that is the best way to become a better officer and leader.
the smart cadets and junior officer do not disregard the years of experience and knowledgeable and season NCO Has to offer. the smart Cadets and junior Officers work towards a respectful working relationship with there NCO, I Never belittled or disrespected any cadet or junior officer in front of the crew.
why?
answer, is simple my job was to teach and mentor not belittle or disrespect .
still any NCO or Chief worth his salt, , can handle the cadet or Junior Officer that wants to play games. I myself knew I had become a Chief when I was able to get any officer to say thankyou, after I just got done telling him or her, very respectfully that what he or she wanted was not ever going to happen, because it was a bad ideal, or it was unsafe, they would be back in there cabin, or 3/4 of the way down the passage way before they realized what I had told them . they would always double back to find out why, and how I did that
why was this so easy ?
the answer is simple, the majority of Cadets, and junior officers do not know there ass from a hole in the ground when right out of the Academy. it not there fault, it was no different for me out of boot camp.
this is why the smart Cadet, and Junior officer right out of the Academy will find a Good NCO to mentor him or her, because they realize that is the best way to become a better officer and leader.
the smart cadets and junior officer do not disregard the years of experience and knowledgeable and season NCO Has to offer. the smart Cadets and junior Officers work towards a respectful working relationship with there NCO, I Never belittled or disrespected any cadet or junior officer in front of the crew.
why?
answer, is simple my job was to teach and mentor not belittle or disrespect .
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Jesus….
The amount of times I’ve had to to (often on a senior officer’s “hint”) take a new 2Lt to one side with, “Can I have a word, ‘sir’?”….
The amount of times I’ve had to to (often on a senior officer’s “hint”) take a new 2Lt to one side with, “Can I have a word, ‘sir’?”….
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Was this question actually posted by a commissioned officer who had completed pre-commissioning training? Did he sleep through all the "Military Science" courses in ROTC?
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Theoretically, yes. Let me be clear, the answer is the affirmative and any NCO who believes otherwise should not be continue in this belief.
Now let's talk about practical matters. Cadets have a job, and that is to learn. Much of that comes from NCO's. Any cadet who does not understand that has no right to continue as a cadet. Any cadet who thinks that they can "lord" their status over any NCO (or any enlisted member) has failed their mission. The officer cadre, particularly the Commander (in the Air Force, that's the Professor of Aerospace Studies, or PAS), would be briefed and would decide if a cadet should be continued in their status. As a cadet, you need to learn, and NCO's are an Excellent source of learning and need to be respected for that fact alone.
Do this, and we will all get along.
Now let's talk about practical matters. Cadets have a job, and that is to learn. Much of that comes from NCO's. Any cadet who does not understand that has no right to continue as a cadet. Any cadet who thinks that they can "lord" their status over any NCO (or any enlisted member) has failed their mission. The officer cadre, particularly the Commander (in the Air Force, that's the Professor of Aerospace Studies, or PAS), would be briefed and would decide if a cadet should be continued in their status. As a cadet, you need to learn, and NCO's are an Excellent source of learning and need to be respected for that fact alone.
Do this, and we will all get along.
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MSgt John Ingersoll
Sorry to inform you, but you are incorrect. Until the cadets have been sworn in as an officer, upon graduating from the academy, they are civilian/cadet "students." And if you believe that an 18 y/o cadet outranks an E-7 with 22 years in the Air Force, then you, sir, need to reconsider and then we will all get "along."
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