Posted on Oct 24, 2017
Do cadets actually outrank non-commissioned officers?
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I deal with cadets a lot, and they insist they out "rank" every NCO in the army. My usual response is somewhere around the guides of "uh-huh." Can I get some clarity of this?
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 1044
Uhmmm ... well, "Cadets" as far as I know, have not received a Commission so I don't see how they could possibly outrank an already Commissioned officer - even a 2LT. I never dealt with a Cadet ... not from a military academy - but have with ROTC Cadets and they were subject fo my supervision though not anything like an actual subordinate - more fore guidance actually.
We were never advised how to handle them ... but I see from other replies that 3-4 year Cadets are between NCO and Warrant ranks. (?) We also referred to them as "sir," or "Mam."
We were never advised how to handle them ... but I see from other replies that 3-4 year Cadets are between NCO and Warrant ranks. (?) We also referred to them as "sir," or "Mam."
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I was a Boiler Technician on my first ship the USS Marvin Shields a Knox Class Frigate. We had Midshipment in the Main Spaces all the time. I was an E-1 to E-4 at the time. These want to be officers were EXTREMELY humble. They had to draw the Systems of the ship like fire fighting systems, main and auxiliary steam systems and so on. The crew had to know these systems like the back of our hands. If one of those Midshipment came down to the fire room being demanding, we would make their lives miserable. Just because your a WANT TO BE OFFICER DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO TREAT PEOPLE LIKE DIRT UNDER YOUR FEET. BTs worked in the HOTTEST, most miserable conditions on the ship, and we didn’t put up with too much especially from prepubescent Officers. In my 25+ years in the Military I served under some GREAT OFFICERS. The worst Officers I’ve had to deal with were in the Army and the Marines (VERY DEMANDING, and not in my chain of command). I got into a full blown argument with a full bird Colonel in the Army wile I was Military Police in Kuwait, (At that time I was in the USNR NEC 9545 and a Cop in the civilian world) as it turned out my Captain had more pull then that Colonel because he was the Provost marshal. As a CPO I will tell you, you can check that attitude at the hatch coming into my space. In the Navy my job is to train Junior Officers, and make the ship move through the water, NOT to put up with YOUR attitude because you want to be a ZERO. You get lousy Officers when Enlisted don’t train them right. Just because you went to college doesn’t mean your an expert in my field of the military. HUMBLE YOURSELF OR GO FUCK YOURSELF, your choice.
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Technically they do. But go ahead when you get to your new posting, and try to order the CSM of the post around, see how that works for you. A lowly member of the E-4 mafia like me, different story. But when you get to the NCO's, tread lightly, lol
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Absolutely!!!! Cadets should absolutely assert their authority over NCOs and square them away as required, particularly "those" Senior NCOs who have served multiple combat tours and have years/decades of experience in the military. Cadets should remember that in a year or two, they'll be Second Lieutenants ... leaders who know more because they attended ROTC or a Military Academy. I hope that I made my point.
Or, conversely ... Cadets could develop relationships with NCOs and become their proteges in order to learn from their years/decades of experience. Most NCOs will be happy to mentor Cadets, knowing in a year or two, those cadets will be Second Lieutenants.
Or, conversely ... Cadets could develop relationships with NCOs and become their proteges in order to learn from their years/decades of experience. Most NCOs will be happy to mentor Cadets, knowing in a year or two, those cadets will be Second Lieutenants.
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Absolutely!!!! Cadets should absolutely assert their authority over NCOs and square them away as required, particularly "those" Senior NCOs who have served multiple combat tours and have years/decades of experience in the military. Cadets should remember that in a year or two, they'll be Second Lieutenants ... leaders who know more because they attended ROTC or a Military Academy. I hope that I made my point.
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Well, technically yes they do. And it comes with a caveat. Just like below, "Yes but..." When we had a new subbie show up, the sergeant or warrant officer pulled them off to the side and had a conversation with them. it was in their best interest to adhere to the advice, and at that point we could tell what kind of officer they were going to be. If they "pulled rank" we normally laughed at them under our breath, and ignored them or did the worst job possible. We would see them on extra duties as we knew the game. End of the day, we figured out that rank was not everything.
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I don't think so, even in OCS it was NCO's running the show. I'd presume a cadet is not a commissioned officer until he or she graduates.
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Absolutely correct. There is not a comedy written that is more entertaining or funnier than the show you will see, when that Dodo bird takes flight. It is truly majestic. NOW, you want to piss off an E7 about to pin his 8? Picture this, and if he sees this, he will know it's him, I'm speaking of. All us medics in the Aid station about to emergency deploy to Haiti due to the earthquake. This E7 is not deploying because he's about to PCS his orders are already signed off on. BUT, we have a Full bird in joining us from Walter Reed and we have another Full Bird there too, our Division Surgeon. Now, the Div Surg is truly trying to do his part so he doesn't look like a waste of space. By properly packing his own ruck so EVERYTHING will fit, not only required items, but wanted ones too. NOW Colonel Walter Reed is not so lucky. The space he is taking up is getting wasted more and more by the second and he's starting to creep into other people's space. He keeps trying to do his ruck by just shoving stuff in with no method to his madness. He lifts it and didn't secure the bottom so all falls through. Straps aren't even fully connected top to bottom and he doesn't even know how TO connect them. This man must have been a great surgeon because a soldier he was not. His field equipment was still sealed in the plastic it was issued to him in with the little piece of paper that had the nomenclature and serial number of the item inside on it. One item he saw he asked what it was. I told him, I said, " Sir, that's a gerber." He replied, "What's a Gerber?" So, I showed him mine, opened it up, showed him all what was in it, and all it could do. Well, he just thought that was the best thing ever invented. So... I'm helping the Div Surg fold his clothes neatly but tightly and small while the Div Surg is packing his own gear. Col. Walter Reed walks over to the E7 and says and does this... Sergeant can you set up my ruck and pack it for me? Then drops all his stuff at the E7s feet, does not wait for an answer and walks away to go have a conversation with some others. My E7 looked at him like he was Al qaeda, ISIS, the Taliban all wrapped up in 1. He grabbed the ruck and started slamming it around putting it together. The Colonel never acknowledged any of this. While my E7 is doing this, he is so pissed his face is turning so dark red it's almost matching the color of our berets. Our Div Surg, saw this and was stunned, but there was no one to out rank the guy because they were both Full birds. I stopped helping our Full bird, and he completely understood, and cautiously walked over to my E7 handed him a cigarette and said go outside before you end up in the back seat of a MPs patrol car, I will do this. My E7 looked at me, took the cigarette and walked outside without a word said. A few minutes later Colonel clueless walks over and he sees me doing his ruck, and says, " Oh, Tri..., you know how to do that?" "I didn't know you knew how." My Div Surg, speaks up and says, "Um, Doe, of course she knows how to do it, she's in the military, everyone should know how to rig and pack their own ruck at the bare minimum." It was his way of shaming the Walter Reed Colonel. My E7 came back about 15 minutes later, but told me to keep the desk jockey away from him, or the Surgeon will need a surgeon. I truly believe the only time this Colonel EVER spent time in the field outside of a hospital, office, air conditioning, lol, was in basic or OCS. I am pay check positive that even though we were all hot and miserable in Haiti (January 2010, daily temp, 95- 105 degrees) He was absolutely especially miserable with no AC, no water, no plumbing, nothing. He had to for the first time in his catered to, spoiled existence, EMBRACE THE SUCK!!!
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Service Academy cadets and midshipman have an established rank that is higher than the senior most enlisted rank and junior to the junior most warrant officer rank. I understand the same is true of ROTC cadets that are in their final two years and have signed a contract to enter the service upon graduation. It is a truly stupid cadet/midshipman who will try to assert this rank. I have heard and read of plenty of stories in which this happened but I can tell you from my time at West Point and from stories I have heard from cadets that I knew, you are told pretty much from the beginning of your time at the Academy that you listen and learn from NCOs. Still, I have no doubt that there are some fools who don't learn this lesson the easy way.
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