Posted on Dec 14, 2020
Do I need to render a salute to an officer when my hands are occupied?
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This is the second time I’ve gotten reprimanded for this situation. I was walking with a binder in my hands, and a mug in the other hand. I walked past a CSM and a CPT, greeted both as I was unable to salute. CSM stopped me and demanded that I drop everything to salute the CPT. AR 600-25 states that I am not required to render a salute if I am carrying articles with both hands. What is the right answer?
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 633
If it was one of those things that caught you off guard then I can see the point but honestly no matter what my rule of thumb is that if I can spot an officer rank from about 15-20 feet “being aware of your surroundings” and am carrying things in my hands I’ll try to move all items to left hand to issue a salute. If your hands are full of like heavy objects like ammo cans or like weapon parts just issue treating of the day or I think it also depends on who they are and if you know them.. ie PL, CO, ect or it’s some random full bird walking around with BDE CSM. If that was the case I’d prob just stop, set my things down go to attention and salute. Once they rendered it back and passed pick up my shit and move on. It’s about showing respect and not trying to be coy or lazy and having situational awareness.
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SSG Raul Alaniz
SSG Josh Phillips, I like your answer to this question, I think the same way you do, we as NCO's Don't need to the sweat the small stuff, put your shit down, Salute give greeting of the day, every time all the time move out, there's no need to drag out reg's, TM's, FM's etc. JUST DO IT, we as NCO's lead by example, and to SGT Martin-if this was your second time by this same CSM, well, you know you kinda had it coming, quit your cry, and be on you way. CSM will be CSM. This shouldn't even be a question, unless it was a life and death situation and it wasn't.
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In response to your original question.
Long answer: Probably
Short answer: Yes
Proper rendering of respect to rank is more important than your mug of whatever.
Long answer: Probably
Short answer: Yes
Proper rendering of respect to rank is more important than your mug of whatever.
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I was on crutches for my last 2 years in I still would stop and offer a salute most officers would offer a comment and tell me not to, but I still made the attempt, it sounds like you were looking for a way out and it was obvious and ghats why you got the well deserved reprimand.
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As a butter bar in QM BOLC I saw another butter walking to class with his coffee in his right hand.
I mentioned to him he should probably switch hands.
No sooner did he blow me off we passed a USMC Captain and seeing the other butter was covered in gasoline the good Captain proceeded to light him up.
Similarly while still in BOLC I was walking out the building, and some old guy (coming from me that's saying a lot) was in a hurry to get in the building and both his arms were full (with his ASU still in the cleaners bags). Before I realized he was the School Commandant he had come and gone and nothing happened.
Regs or not, some folks seek out reasons to harp on things, others have actual things to do.
CSM's are a special breed. You should know that as a SGT by now.
I mentioned to him he should probably switch hands.
No sooner did he blow me off we passed a USMC Captain and seeing the other butter was covered in gasoline the good Captain proceeded to light him up.
Similarly while still in BOLC I was walking out the building, and some old guy (coming from me that's saying a lot) was in a hurry to get in the building and both his arms were full (with his ASU still in the cleaners bags). Before I realized he was the School Commandant he had come and gone and nothing happened.
Regs or not, some folks seek out reasons to harp on things, others have actual things to do.
CSM's are a special breed. You should know that as a SGT by now.
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CWO3 (Join to see)
In a book about young Puller, he came across a 2Lt that was remediating an enlisted by countless salutes. He told him it was his duty to return every one. Another zero got overzealous with an extended shower that enlisted carried water up a hill to fill. After his shower he handed him a bucket. No explanation required. https://www.military.com/marine-corps/5-reasons-why-chesty-puller-marine-corps-legend.html
5 Reasons Why Chesty Puller is a Marine Corps Legend
Lt. Gen. Lewis "Chesty" Puller was a Marine’s Marine. A bonafide badass leatherneck, with the scars to prove it. Here are 5 reasons why this Marine is a legend.
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CPT William Jones
I had that problem in OCS running back from cleaners with my whole squads uniforms manyhands full worth of stuff I see my tax officer talking to another about 100 feet away looking in my direction I halted and saluted and greeted.
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A nod and appropriate greeting should suffice. good Morning Sir, Ma'am. Good morning SgtMaj. It's the CSMs job to preserve customs & military courtesy, but unless it's for Colors work takes priority. Texting does not count toward that, so it depends.
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CWO3 (Join to see)
That too. An effort could/should have been made. Eye contact should trigger the thought process.
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1SG John Highfill
SFC Kelly Fuerhoff 670-1 , 3-6(d) says no eating drinking smoking or talking on cell phones while walking in uniform
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CPT William Jones
SFC (Verify To See) - She was not carrying things she could fit in her left hand. She had been corrected on this issue before. I see no problem with a binder and cup/mug in the same hand. I expected anyone I corrected once as simple as how to carry mug and binder or similar items and salute to not do it again. If she was one of mine and did that to another officer ie the bde Co it reflects on my training my people. One correction on something as simple as this is more than enough times. That correction was an interpritation of the regs for this particular problem
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MSG Clyde Mills
Again Cpt. Jones, you fail and the Female Sgt. fails to put all important info in her Question. How do you know the binder was not able to be tucked under her arm or shifted to the other hand. Stop beating a dead horse with your answer if you don't know all the facts.
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In my experience the on paper answer doesn't always satisfy people who are looking for errors or deficiencies. I've found it easier to just salute someone and while you're shuffling your belongings they'll tell you no need to salute.
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The right answer would be don’t carry the mug of coffee. Or figure out how to carry that binder and your coffee in your left hand. You could have walked with the binder under your left arm and you’re mug in the left hand leaving free your right hand. Your an NCO don’t make excuses as to why you can’t adhere to proper customs and courtesies.
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IMO you should keep your right hand free when in an environment where saluting is required. Your description of the situation sounds weak. Could you have tucked the binder under your left arm and held the mug in your left hand? Maybe the mug should have stayed at your desk or kitchen? You’re an NCO. Be a good example!
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Quit playing “hands full” games and render the salute. From your question, it looks like you have a habit of ensuring your hands are full to avoid saluting. Looks like I just found the instructor for next month’s NCOPD class on military customs and courtesy.
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