Posted on Jan 15, 2016
Do Pathfinder wings have to be flush with the pocket on ASUs?
146K
410
129
31
31
0
I work as a Technician in the NG. I manage the DA photo lab in the J6 Visual Information office. Today while in the lab talking to the photographer an E-7 walked in for a photo. I have spent many hours in the photo lab and consider myself a DA Pam 670-1 expert. When I told this E-7 his Pathfinder wings were not flush below his pocket he said that "Active Pathfinders cant/tilt their wings". I searched for hours on traditions and looked in the DA Pam. His photo has already been uploaded but I'm asking for my sanity because I've been searching for hours now.
Awards
DA Pam 670-1
Army Regulations
Pathfinder School
Badges
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 59
6
6
0
1SG (Join to see) I will do some research. Who knows? Professionalism is always at the forefront when taking a DA Photo. I have always been taught (centered) and dress-right-dress according to AR-670-1.
SGT (Join to see) MAJ Ken Landgren CPT L S SSG Warren Swan LTC Stephen F. SFC Mark Merino
SGT (Join to see) MAJ Ken Landgren CPT L S SSG Warren Swan LTC Stephen F. SFC Mark Merino
(6)
(0)
5
5
0
Wait, he really told you that an "active pathfinder" can cant or tilt their wings? This SFC needs to go back and look at AR 670-1 since the answer is no. Notice my torch in my picture? Is it canted? No. Besides, if you really want to skin the cat, the only "active pathfinder" is one who is actually serving in a pathfinder company, no one who is just in the coded position in some unit.
(5)
(0)
SPC Phillip Hersman
Didn't the army deactivate the lady pathfinder company within the last few years?
(0)
(0)
CPL (Join to see)
You can't actually say the answer is no since AR 670-1 does not actually specify in writing. Just shows a couple pictures. Reason why they will not put it in clear writing is because of tradition started by the original pathfinders from WW2 and if you go back and look at the pathfinder manual right there on the cover it is canted
(0)
(0)
MAJ (Join to see)
CPL (Join to see) - I doubt that's the reason. Maybe the reason is that most can look at the AR 670-1 and figure out a picture.
(0)
(0)
5
5
0
The can/tilt comes from the way the original pathfinder patch was designed. Although there are some individuals who wear them canted on their ASUs, if I were taking a DA photo, I would definitely have it flushed, as is prescribed.
(5)
(0)
5
5
0
Not exactly sure what you mean by tilt... Here is my torch and it's the only way I've ever known/seen it worn? Can someone clarify?
(5)
(0)
SSG (Join to see)
My BN CSM (Pathfinder, Ranger, Airborne, etc) says that the torch is canted because the tip of the torch and the tip of the wing should be parallel. The gives the torch a slight cant........
(1)
(0)
SGT Chester Beedle
SFC Clark Adams - It's not a "flash" as many have said. The flash is what is worn on the beret. That is the oval worn by airborne units 101st, 82nd, 173rd, the unit in Alaska, SF, 75th Ranger Rgt. is called airborne background trimming. Yes, the 101st is "air assault" but without getting into that whole argument, let's just go with the helicopter replaced the glider and that paraglider infantry and parachute infantry used to get into fights about who the real airborne was as far back as WW2.
From DA PAM 670-1
21–32. Distinctive items authorized for other than infantry personnel
a. Organizational flash.
(1) Description. A shield-shaped embroidered patch worn on the beret, with a semicircular bottom, approximately 2
1/4 inches long and 1 7/8 inches wide.
(2) How worn. The flash is sewn centered on the stiffener of the beret (see para 21–3c).
(3) Authorized wearers. See AR 670–1.
b. Airborne background trimming.
(1) Description. An oval-shaped embroidered device in distinctive colors, 1 3/8 inches in height and 2 1/4 inches in
width.
(2) How worn.
(a) Personnel wear the background trimming beneath any of the authorized parachutist or air assault badges on the
green and blue service coats and the service uniforms shirt. The basic portion of the badge is centered on the
background trimming; however, the wreath and star on the master and senior parachutist badges project slightly above
the background trimming. On the AG 415 shirt when ribbons are worn, all personnel wear the trimming so the bottom
edge of the trimming is 1/4 inch above the ribbons. When ribbons are not worn, males wear the trimming 1/4 inch
above the pocket seam, and females wear the trimming in a comparable position.
(b) On the green and blue service coats, males wear the background trimming and applicable badge on the pocket
flap so the space between the seam of the pocket flap and the top of the background trimming, wreath, or star is 1/8
inch (see fig 21–170). Females wear the trimming and applicable badge on the green and blue service coats and the
maternity uniform tunic so the bottom edge of the background trimming is 1/4 inch above the ribbons (see fig 21–171).
When worn below the ribbons, the top of the background trimming is 1/4 inch below the bottom ribbon row.
From DA PAM 670-1
21–32. Distinctive items authorized for other than infantry personnel
a. Organizational flash.
(1) Description. A shield-shaped embroidered patch worn on the beret, with a semicircular bottom, approximately 2
1/4 inches long and 1 7/8 inches wide.
(2) How worn. The flash is sewn centered on the stiffener of the beret (see para 21–3c).
(3) Authorized wearers. See AR 670–1.
b. Airborne background trimming.
(1) Description. An oval-shaped embroidered device in distinctive colors, 1 3/8 inches in height and 2 1/4 inches in
width.
(2) How worn.
(a) Personnel wear the background trimming beneath any of the authorized parachutist or air assault badges on the
green and blue service coats and the service uniforms shirt. The basic portion of the badge is centered on the
background trimming; however, the wreath and star on the master and senior parachutist badges project slightly above
the background trimming. On the AG 415 shirt when ribbons are worn, all personnel wear the trimming so the bottom
edge of the trimming is 1/4 inch above the ribbons. When ribbons are not worn, males wear the trimming 1/4 inch
above the pocket seam, and females wear the trimming in a comparable position.
(b) On the green and blue service coats, males wear the background trimming and applicable badge on the pocket
flap so the space between the seam of the pocket flap and the top of the background trimming, wreath, or star is 1/8
inch (see fig 21–170). Females wear the trimming and applicable badge on the green and blue service coats and the
maternity uniform tunic so the bottom edge of the background trimming is 1/4 inch above the ribbons (see fig 21–171).
When worn below the ribbons, the top of the background trimming is 1/4 inch below the bottom ribbon row.
(3)
(0)
CPT William Jones
SSG (Join to see) - Sgt look at the picture above my eyeballs say the tip of torch (bottom) are parallel as shown and the torch is vertical not tipped. But then I am not Pathfinder Qualified, just an old Combat Engineer
(0)
(0)
4
4
0
Here is what everyone needs to remember.. your presenting a snapshot of yourself to members of a board... 99 percent of them aren’t pathfinders.. they aren’t grading you off of a tradition.. they are grading you based off of what they see and can relate to 670-1... .. if it isn’t defined there .. then they ll go back to is it straight is it professional looking... it’s ok to have swagger.. but a time and a place
(4)
(0)
4
4
0
DA Pam 670-1 doesn't specify the badge needs to be nevertheless, for an offical photo you want to take the guess work away from the board members. Let him deal with it!
(4)
(0)
4
4
0
The regulation does not specify that. Ultimately, it is up to the soldier to make sure the official photo is in regulation. If this SFC wants to go against the guidance..well he may have to live with any consequences.
(4)
(0)
1SG (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see) and that is the service I we try to provide and help soldiers if we see something wrong. I guess he wanted to have crooked wings on his official photo.
(0)
(0)
1SG (Join to see)
Oh I know. I had one of "you" once point out that I had forgotten some of my pocket buttons
(2)
(0)
1SG (Join to see)
I think most of us have taken our jacket to the dry cleaners and forgot to take the buttons off. Never to be seen again 1SG (Join to see) .
(0)
(0)
CPT William Jones
I had small round button holes put on my blouse and used little clips on the ring after inserting in hole only took a couple of minutes and buttons were back on and didn't get messed up in laundry. I also used the gold plated Engineer Buttons.
(0)
(0)
3
3
0
3
3
0
I'm not a pathfinder but if I were, it would be straight on my ASUs and tilted as all be damned on my combat uniform.
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
It's been a year since I posted this question on here. Here is a photo reference.
(3)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google