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I thought we already knew air power alone can't get the job done?
We have seen/found/learned... time and time again... that air power alone will not get it done.
In the end, it requires boots on the ground, securing, holding, and restoring order, and a genuine long term commitment; with an end state (no date) determined only by reaching well established and discernible goals...
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/2015/05/27/analysis-against-is-airstrikes-may-not-suffice/28035009/
We have seen/found/learned... time and time again... that air power alone will not get it done.
In the end, it requires boots on the ground, securing, holding, and restoring order, and a genuine long term commitment; with an end state (no date) determined only by reaching well established and discernible goals...
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/2015/05/27/analysis-against-is-airstrikes-may-not-suffice/28035009/
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 26
Sir, airpower is not employed today because of it's effectiveness (or lack of it). Airpower is employed because it's politically expedient and relatively low risk. It's much easier and less risky (both in safety to the SM and politically to the politician) to drop a bomb on a tent and say "look, I'm doing something!" than to deploy a company of Soldiers or Marines to assault that tent and say "look, I'm doing something!"
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SN Greg Wright
Hey! Did you just retire, Colonel? I could have sworn you were AD. Edit: Doh, 2-year old thread.
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LTC Paul Labrador
SN Greg Wright - Yup. I became a member of the Blue ID club back in November....... ;o)
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LTC Paul Labrador
SN Greg Wright - Moved to Las Vegas. Doing some bedside clinical stuff for play money. Staying well away from being management ever again..... :o)
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If we want to win their hearts, we must first grab 'em by the ****s! It's rather difficult to make that reach from 10,000' above the ground.
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LTC Terrence Farrier, PhD
Agreed! Some require a rattle before a walk. We must remember how we walk afterwards, with a strategic pattern in mind.
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I think we thought our air power and their soldiers would be enough to fight and win. But their, Iraqi, forces can't take advantage of the success of the air strikes. The Iraqi Army expect the air strikes to kill all of the enemy. That isn't going to happen. You aren't going to show up after the fight is over and came victory. I just think we didn't think they were that much of cowards as they are.
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COL Charles Williams
We often think air power, generally limited in scale, will work... CPT (Join to see)
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CPT (Join to see)
COL Charles Williams I was reading today how the pilots are saying they can't get targets cleared to be attack when they find them. It just seems we aren't really using our air power well enough. I wouldn't have thought ISIS would still be operating freely as they are when we are committing our air assets.
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LTC Terrence Farrier, PhD
Any force, regardless of makeup, requires resolve. For us, we should get as clear intel as we can then once the intel is credible we should not hesitate. Will civilians be killed...yes sometimes. No one likes it, but it is inevitable when there is faulty intel or protectionism from groups or families.
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COL Charles Williams, some do (or did) understand, and utilized previous lessons learned. Here are GEN George Patton's thoughts on the subject, all penned some 65-70 years ago!
"It’s the unconquerable soul of man, not the nature of the weapon he uses, that insures victory."
"The soldier is the army."
"Wars might be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of the men who leads that gains the victory."
"... many, who should know better, think that wars can be decided by soulless machines, rather than by the blood and anguish of brave men."
"It’s the unconquerable soul of man, not the nature of the weapon he uses, that insures victory."
"The soldier is the army."
"Wars might be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of the men who leads that gains the victory."
"... many, who should know better, think that wars can be decided by soulless machines, rather than by the blood and anguish of brave men."
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SGT Richard H.
Here's another popular one around these parts:
“Give me an Army of West Point graduates and I'll win a battle... Give me a handful of Texas Aggies and I'll win a war.” ~Gen George S. Patton
“Give me an Army of West Point graduates and I'll win a battle... Give me a handful of Texas Aggies and I'll win a war.” ~Gen George S. Patton
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Short answer is no, we do not. As a nation, voters and politicians alike are more focused on the issue-du-jour rather than the fact that history repeats itself, and that those who do not study the failures of the past are apt to repeat the same failures.
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I keep hearing "75% of the bombers come back with their payloads because they couldn't identify where the ordinance was needed. (paraphrased)" Well, DUH! But there are other history lessons that seem to have been forgotten, like thinking that Americans on the ground in Muslim countries will ever be seen as "a peacekeeping endeavor."
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LTC Terrence Farrier, PhD
Fellow military members, it is time we stop stating Muslim's in general are ALL bad. That is stereotypical wording. I can tell you from experience, not ALL Muslims are. The radical ones ARE enemies to us all...but so are Christian radicals and yes there are some. As far as faith is concerned, I have been in a combat zone where a key contractor and myself prayed to different Gods...his belief in Allah and my belief in Jesus. He was on a mat and I on my knees. His character and love for others was no less than mine. It is what we do with our faith that matters. Associatively, how others see us and how we act with our faith matters. We must be just as quick not to jump on the societal emotional contagion associated with differences in faith lest we prove our inability to justify our own.
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No matter what the lessons are from history, if are our leaders ignore those and follow some other path of idiocy, all we can do is follow orders as we are required to.
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"Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it."
-- George Santayana
"Those who study history are doomed to watch others repeat it"
-- Randy Bartlett
“What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.”
--Ecclesiastes 1:9 (NIV)
The question is not so much “Do we ever learn from history?”, but rather WHY don’t we ever learn? If we could answer that question, then solutions to “novel” problems – especially with regard to human relations – might stand a better chance of actually working.
With regard to WHY, there are at least THREE contributing factors to our overall failures (in general). The first is human conceit which believes that mankind is perfectible, that we somehow evolve beyond our base human instincts…or may somehow have them trained out of us. We believe that we will naturally do things better than the previous generations – without a firm or comprehensive first-hand knowledge of what they had to deal with. The Framers of our Constitution – recognizing this self-serving conceit – sought to put in place control measures to prevent abuse and repetition of errors made in every previous human experience with government. Bottom line: we tend to believe the very best in everyone,
“The [human] heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?” Jeremiah 17:9
Another reason we seem to miss the mark is the sheer amount of interactive complexity that exceeds our human mind’s capacity -- individual or collective -- to grasp. Therefore, we tend to oversimplify the problems and fail to consider unintended consequences of their “obvious” solutions.
Thirdly, we (some more than others...just ask my wife) get pigheaded that OUR solutions WILL work, and we do not like to be proven wrong (See Reason #1). Our tenacity to hold on to flawed solutions tends to grow the more of ourselves we devote to their success.
http://www.amazon.com/Logic-Failure-Recognizing-Avoiding-Situations/dp/ [login to see] /ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid= [login to see] &sr=1-1&keywords=logic+of+failure
-- George Santayana
"Those who study history are doomed to watch others repeat it"
-- Randy Bartlett
“What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.”
--Ecclesiastes 1:9 (NIV)
The question is not so much “Do we ever learn from history?”, but rather WHY don’t we ever learn? If we could answer that question, then solutions to “novel” problems – especially with regard to human relations – might stand a better chance of actually working.
With regard to WHY, there are at least THREE contributing factors to our overall failures (in general). The first is human conceit which believes that mankind is perfectible, that we somehow evolve beyond our base human instincts…or may somehow have them trained out of us. We believe that we will naturally do things better than the previous generations – without a firm or comprehensive first-hand knowledge of what they had to deal with. The Framers of our Constitution – recognizing this self-serving conceit – sought to put in place control measures to prevent abuse and repetition of errors made in every previous human experience with government. Bottom line: we tend to believe the very best in everyone,
“The [human] heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?” Jeremiah 17:9
Another reason we seem to miss the mark is the sheer amount of interactive complexity that exceeds our human mind’s capacity -- individual or collective -- to grasp. Therefore, we tend to oversimplify the problems and fail to consider unintended consequences of their “obvious” solutions.
Thirdly, we (some more than others...just ask my wife) get pigheaded that OUR solutions WILL work, and we do not like to be proven wrong (See Reason #1). Our tenacity to hold on to flawed solutions tends to grow the more of ourselves we devote to their success.
http://www.amazon.com/Logic-Failure-Recognizing-Avoiding-Situations/dp/ [login to see] /ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid= [login to see] &sr=1-1&keywords=logic+of+failure
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LTC Terrence Farrier, PhD
MAJ Wilson, good comment. The problem is the why do we not...the answer has many to that challenge lies in the characters and fears of those who entertain and support - NOT learning.
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I'd like to find the guy who said "air power alone can get the job done" and drive a pitot tube through his throat. It's like saying boots on the ground alone can get the job done. Who's saying this? And the article itself gets me beaked...if the strategy is "overwhelming air power delivering..." then what we're executing definitely is NOT the strategy. Overwhelming? Arrrgghhh!
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Well... My second marriage is better than my first....
But, no. Politicians and the public are eternally enamored of the idea of war without human cost. As such "Airpower alone" will never die.
But, no. Politicians and the public are eternally enamored of the idea of war without human cost. As such "Airpower alone" will never die.
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LTC John Wilson
It's not surprising given that we've consciously devoted 27.8% of our defense budget to the continued attempt to validate Douhet's flawed theory.
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