Posted on Apr 12, 2017
Do you feel it's fair for an airline to deplane (in any way) a paying passenger when they are oversold?
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Posted 7 y ago
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The contract you effectively sign when you purchase a ticket gives the airlines the legal ability to do many things you wouldn't like. Oversold flights happen all the time. They get sorted in the boarding area. In the United case, they messed up by having sold a full flight, loaded, and then decided they needed 4 seats for air crew positioning the next morning at the destination. They got into the situation by not offering enough cash (not vouchers). So would you take $1600 to deplane, get put up overnight, and then fly the next day? I'm sure they'd have 60 people wanting that and hopefully not a brawl as to who cashes in. The airlines do not give the gate agents or air crew the authority to do what's necessary to humanely deal with the oddball instance where the usual nothingburger stuff doesn't work. Everything is on the bell curve. Stuff is run to guarantee events like this, passenger rage, etc. because people are treated like cattle. Then they wonder why they have problems. Things are so competitive and margins so slim that the math says a certain level of overbooking helps the bottom line. So you agree to the rules if you want to fly. If you don't want to, the bus and train are also there. But you agree to a different set of rules when you buy their ticket as well.
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MCPO Roger Collins
Sorry, Captain. I repeated your explanation prior to reading your complete explanation.
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Despite much for what will follow, I am sympathetic to the business reasons why airlines overbook & bump, but just because they concoct a rule for their own benefit does not make said rule an inherently sacred thing.
What you saw recently was not just one passenger rebelling against what we've all come to accept as normal (in this specific industry), but it touched a nerve among the flying public that has had to endure increased fees, reduced services, tighter crowding in the cabins, and the threat that if the airline's overbooking policy creates a problem, it is the flying public who has to be inconvenienced more than the airline.
We lament the drop in customer serve regardless of the industry, but for some reason we have grown accustomed to it when we fly. Hell, it's "normal". But as low as our customer service expectations are in general, how many other industries would the public come to expect such treatment? While I never believed the customer is "always" right, when doing business with the public, the customer damn sure better be the primary concern.
Yes there are valid reasons why those who paid their hard-earned money for a ticket get bumped, and they should have some latitude to do that, but such policies (and recompense for the value lost by the public) need to be reexamined and possibly reworked, with greater focus on the customer whose needs are not being met by an airline casually removing them from the flight due to their overbooking. In a case like this, where 4 people were bumped to make room for airline employees, the airline should tighten up it's logistics and operations to reduce the occurrences where customers have to make room for employees.
What you saw recently was not just one passenger rebelling against what we've all come to accept as normal (in this specific industry), but it touched a nerve among the flying public that has had to endure increased fees, reduced services, tighter crowding in the cabins, and the threat that if the airline's overbooking policy creates a problem, it is the flying public who has to be inconvenienced more than the airline.
We lament the drop in customer serve regardless of the industry, but for some reason we have grown accustomed to it when we fly. Hell, it's "normal". But as low as our customer service expectations are in general, how many other industries would the public come to expect such treatment? While I never believed the customer is "always" right, when doing business with the public, the customer damn sure better be the primary concern.
Yes there are valid reasons why those who paid their hard-earned money for a ticket get bumped, and they should have some latitude to do that, but such policies (and recompense for the value lost by the public) need to be reexamined and possibly reworked, with greater focus on the customer whose needs are not being met by an airline casually removing them from the flight due to their overbooking. In a case like this, where 4 people were bumped to make room for airline employees, the airline should tighten up it's logistics and operations to reduce the occurrences where customers have to make room for employees.
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If the Flight is over Booked they Should ask for volunteers before they board the Plane - Not After - Then when have the plane board - 1st come 1st serve if your late too damn bad
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There is no reason or excuse to forcibly remove a paying customer.
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Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth
MCPO Roger Collins - Agreed...IF there is a threat or a passenger is belligerent or disruptive, then yes...by all means get them off the plane anyway they can. In this case he showed his boarding pass, went down the jetway, and was in his assigned seat. That means he was selected to fly this segment. This should have been handled long before he boarded. If I am not mistaken, by FAA regulations, once you are on the plane you are not allowed to deplane as well. United was only thinking about their bottom line trying to get a crewmember to another location so they could make another flight.
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Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth
MCPO Roger Collins - Man...this ole country boy had to look up that word. Cost me $10...LOL
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Unless the individual presented a safety issue to himself or other passengers
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Yes. They told everyone they were oversold. They offered $800-1000 to have people take another flight. This individual was told he would not have a seat. He had a preprinted boarding pass so he got on anyway. The airline needed to get a crew to Louisville.
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It's so hypocritical for these airlines to be so regulated but I guess they drop the ball on regulating how clients (passengers) should be treated, with dignity and respect! Some of these flight attendants (male/females) get so empowered believing they have some type of authority on our right to fly!
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Here is the contract agreement for denied boarding. I don't see anywhere on here where it states that they can be forced to give up a seat once it has been claimed. In my mind, denied boarding means that it happens before passengers are sat, not after. Which means that it should happen at the gate and not on the plane. Here is the reference.
Rule 25 Denied Boarding Compensation
A.Denied Boarding (U.S.A./Canadian Flight Origin) - When there is an Oversold UA flight that originates in the U.S.A. or Canada, the following provisions apply: 1.Request for Volunteers a.UA will request Passengers who are willing to relinquish their confirmed reserved space in exchange for compensation in an amount determined by UA (including but not limited to check or an electronic travel certificate). The travel certificate will be valid only for travel on UA or designated Codeshare partners for one year from the date of issue and will have no refund value. If a Passenger is asked to volunteer, UA will not later deny boarding to that Passenger involuntarily unless that Passenger was informed at the time he was asked to volunteer that there was a possibility of being denied boarding involuntarily and of the amount of compensation to which he/she would have been entitled in that event. The request for volunteers and the selection of such person to be denied space will be in a manner determined solely by UA.
2.Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UA’s boarding priority: a.Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship.
b.The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
3. Transportation for Passengers Denied Boarding - When UA is unable to provide previously confirmed space due to an Oversold flight, UA will provide transportation to such Passengers who have been denied boarding whether voluntarily or involuntarily in accordance with the provisions below. a.UA will transport the Passenger on its own flight to the Destination without Stopover on its next flight on which space is available at no additional cost to the Passenger, regardless of class of service.
b.If space is available on another Carrier’s flight regardless of class of service, such flights may be used upon United’s sole discretion and the Passenger’s request at no additional cost to the Passenger only if such flight provides an earlier arrival than the UA flight offered in 3) a) above.
4. Compensation for Passengers Denied Boarding Involuntarily a.For passengers traveling in interstate transportation between points within the United States, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
b.For passengers traveling from the United States to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a U.S. airport at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
c.For passengers traveling from Canada to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a Canadian airport with a maximum of 200 CAD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight with a maximum of 300 CAD. At the passenger’s request, compensation in the form of check, wire transfer, visa card, or a travel voucher will be made by UA, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA.
d.EXCEPTIONS: A Passenger denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight shall not be eligible for denied boarding compensation if: i.The flight is cancelled;
ii.The Passenger holding a Ticket for confirmed reserved space does not comply fully with the requirements in this Contract of Carriage Requirements regarding ticketing, check-in, reconfirmation procedures, and acceptance for transportation;
iii.The flight for which the Passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate the Passenger because of substitution of equipment of lesser capacity when required by operational or safety reasons or, on an aircraft with a designed passenger capacity of 60 or fewer seats, the flight for which the passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate that passenger due to weight/balance restrictions when required by operational or safety reasons;
iv.The Passenger is offered accommodations or is seated in a section of the aircraft other than that specified on his/her ticket at no extra charge. Provided, if a Passenger is seated in a section for which a lower fare applies, the Passenger will be entitled to a refund applicable to the difference in fares;
v.The Passenger is accommodated on Alternate Transportation at no extra cost, which at the time such arrangements are made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the Passenger’s next Stopover, (if any), or at the Destination, not later than 60 minutes after the planned arrival time of the flight on which the Passenger held confirmed reserved space;
vi.The Passenger is an employee of UA or of another Carrier or other person traveling without a confirmed reserved space; or
vii.The Passenger does not present him/herself at the loading gate for boarding at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled domestic departures, and 30 minutes prior to scheduled international departures. See Rule 5 D) for additional information regarding boarding cut-off times.
5.Payment Time and Form for Passengers Traveling Between Points within the United States or from the United States to a Foreign Point a.Compensation in the form of check will be made by UA on the day and at the place where the failure to provide confirmed reserved space occurs, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA. However, when UA has arranged, for the Passenger’s convenience, Alternate Transportation that departs before the compensation to the Passenger under this provision can be prepared and given to the Passenger, the compensation shall be sent by mail or other means to the Passenger within 24 hours thereafter.
b.UA may offer free or reduced rate air transportation in lieu of a check payment due under this Rule, if the value of the transportation credit offered is equal to or greater than the monetary compensation otherwise due and UA informs the Passenger of the amount and that the Passenger may decline the transportation benefit and receive the monetary compensation.
6. Limitation of Liability - If UA’s offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is accepted by the Passenger, such payment will constitute full compensation for all actual or anticipatory damages incurred or to be incurred by the Passenger as a result of UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. If UA’s offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is not accepted, UA’s liability is limited to actual damages proved not to exceed 1350 USD per Ticketed Passenger as a result of UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. Passenger will be responsible for providing documentation of all actual damages claimed. UA shall not be liable for any punitive, consequential or special damages arising out of or in connection with UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space.
B.Denied Boarding Non-U.S.A./Canada Flight Origin - Where there is an Oversold UA flight that originates outside the U.S.A. or Canada, no compensation will be provided except where required by local or international laws regulating Oversold flights.
Rule 25 Denied Boarding Compensation
A.Denied Boarding (U.S.A./Canadian Flight Origin) - When there is an Oversold UA flight that originates in the U.S.A. or Canada, the following provisions apply: 1.Request for Volunteers a.UA will request Passengers who are willing to relinquish their confirmed reserved space in exchange for compensation in an amount determined by UA (including but not limited to check or an electronic travel certificate). The travel certificate will be valid only for travel on UA or designated Codeshare partners for one year from the date of issue and will have no refund value. If a Passenger is asked to volunteer, UA will not later deny boarding to that Passenger involuntarily unless that Passenger was informed at the time he was asked to volunteer that there was a possibility of being denied boarding involuntarily and of the amount of compensation to which he/she would have been entitled in that event. The request for volunteers and the selection of such person to be denied space will be in a manner determined solely by UA.
2.Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UA’s boarding priority: a.Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship.
b.The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
3. Transportation for Passengers Denied Boarding - When UA is unable to provide previously confirmed space due to an Oversold flight, UA will provide transportation to such Passengers who have been denied boarding whether voluntarily or involuntarily in accordance with the provisions below. a.UA will transport the Passenger on its own flight to the Destination without Stopover on its next flight on which space is available at no additional cost to the Passenger, regardless of class of service.
b.If space is available on another Carrier’s flight regardless of class of service, such flights may be used upon United’s sole discretion and the Passenger’s request at no additional cost to the Passenger only if such flight provides an earlier arrival than the UA flight offered in 3) a) above.
4. Compensation for Passengers Denied Boarding Involuntarily a.For passengers traveling in interstate transportation between points within the United States, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
b.For passengers traveling from the United States to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a U.S. airport at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
c.For passengers traveling from Canada to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a Canadian airport with a maximum of 200 CAD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight with a maximum of 300 CAD. At the passenger’s request, compensation in the form of check, wire transfer, visa card, or a travel voucher will be made by UA, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA.
d.EXCEPTIONS: A Passenger denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight shall not be eligible for denied boarding compensation if: i.The flight is cancelled;
ii.The Passenger holding a Ticket for confirmed reserved space does not comply fully with the requirements in this Contract of Carriage Requirements regarding ticketing, check-in, reconfirmation procedures, and acceptance for transportation;
iii.The flight for which the Passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate the Passenger because of substitution of equipment of lesser capacity when required by operational or safety reasons or, on an aircraft with a designed passenger capacity of 60 or fewer seats, the flight for which the passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate that passenger due to weight/balance restrictions when required by operational or safety reasons;
iv.The Passenger is offered accommodations or is seated in a section of the aircraft other than that specified on his/her ticket at no extra charge. Provided, if a Passenger is seated in a section for which a lower fare applies, the Passenger will be entitled to a refund applicable to the difference in fares;
v.The Passenger is accommodated on Alternate Transportation at no extra cost, which at the time such arrangements are made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the Passenger’s next Stopover, (if any), or at the Destination, not later than 60 minutes after the planned arrival time of the flight on which the Passenger held confirmed reserved space;
vi.The Passenger is an employee of UA or of another Carrier or other person traveling without a confirmed reserved space; or
vii.The Passenger does not present him/herself at the loading gate for boarding at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled domestic departures, and 30 minutes prior to scheduled international departures. See Rule 5 D) for additional information regarding boarding cut-off times.
5.Payment Time and Form for Passengers Traveling Between Points within the United States or from the United States to a Foreign Point a.Compensation in the form of check will be made by UA on the day and at the place where the failure to provide confirmed reserved space occurs, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA. However, when UA has arranged, for the Passenger’s convenience, Alternate Transportation that departs before the compensation to the Passenger under this provision can be prepared and given to the Passenger, the compensation shall be sent by mail or other means to the Passenger within 24 hours thereafter.
b.UA may offer free or reduced rate air transportation in lieu of a check payment due under this Rule, if the value of the transportation credit offered is equal to or greater than the monetary compensation otherwise due and UA informs the Passenger of the amount and that the Passenger may decline the transportation benefit and receive the monetary compensation.
6. Limitation of Liability - If UA’s offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is accepted by the Passenger, such payment will constitute full compensation for all actual or anticipatory damages incurred or to be incurred by the Passenger as a result of UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. If UA’s offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is not accepted, UA’s liability is limited to actual damages proved not to exceed 1350 USD per Ticketed Passenger as a result of UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. Passenger will be responsible for providing documentation of all actual damages claimed. UA shall not be liable for any punitive, consequential or special damages arising out of or in connection with UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space.
B.Denied Boarding Non-U.S.A./Canada Flight Origin - Where there is an Oversold UA flight that originates outside the U.S.A. or Canada, no compensation will be provided except where required by local or international laws regulating Oversold flights.
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MCPO Roger Collins
We can play semantics, but the ambulance chasers and United will sort it out.
Transportation.gov
Airlines set their own "boarding priorities" -- the order in which they will bump different categories of passengers in an oversale situation. When a flight is oversold and there are not enough volunteers, some airlines bump passengers with the lowest fares first. Others bump the last passengers to check in. Once you have purchased your ticket, the most effective way to reduce the risk of being bumped is to get to the airport early. For passengers in the same fare class the last passengers to check in are usually the first to be bumped, even if they have met the check-in deadline. Allow extra time; assume that the roads are backed up, the parking lot is full, and there is a long line at the check-in counter.
Transportation.gov
Airlines set their own "boarding priorities" -- the order in which they will bump different categories of passengers in an oversale situation. When a flight is oversold and there are not enough volunteers, some airlines bump passengers with the lowest fares first. Others bump the last passengers to check in. Once you have purchased your ticket, the most effective way to reduce the risk of being bumped is to get to the airport early. For passengers in the same fare class the last passengers to check in are usually the first to be bumped, even if they have met the check-in deadline. Allow extra time; assume that the roads are backed up, the parking lot is full, and there is a long line at the check-in counter.
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SSG (Join to see)
I understand that, but maybe a multibillion dollar company should hire better lawyers to literally spell it out and not leave anything open for interpretation. Denied boarding is totally different than deplaning. Nowhere in this contract does it mention deplaning due to overbooking, only says denied boarding. But what do I know? I'm just some enlisted guy not expected to have an education, but the common sense is strong in this one.
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I think they should have to keep upping the offer until someone decides that it is just too much money to say "no." There is some amount where someone on that plane would have said yes. I hindsight some exec at United probably thinks it would have been better to offer $10k rather than the PR mess they have now.
While I was on embassy duty, Air Ivoire, (the airline of the Ivory Coast) had a unique solution to overbooking. there was no "different seating" for economy or 1st class, but 1st class passengers got to board first. Then economy was lined up and the stewardess said "go." If you got your butt in a seat you got to go, if not you waited for the next flight. I sat next to a lovely lady who swung two live chickens as clubs as she fought her way down the aisle.
While I was on embassy duty, Air Ivoire, (the airline of the Ivory Coast) had a unique solution to overbooking. there was no "different seating" for economy or 1st class, but 1st class passengers got to board first. Then economy was lined up and the stewardess said "go." If you got your butt in a seat you got to go, if not you waited for the next flight. I sat next to a lovely lady who swung two live chickens as clubs as she fought her way down the aisle.
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SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4"
"That would work in most cases, but in cases where it could have been a military person or DoD official, that wouldn't work as we would have a strict report time to make. "
I recall a colleague of mine (while serving) was not given priority on his flight (this was United). He missed his flight due to a delay on his previous and they couldn't book him on another so he had to wait. They told him "You have no priority here just because you're in uniform" after he explicitly told them he has to report to duty.
"That would work in most cases, but in cases where it could have been a military person or DoD official, that wouldn't work as we would have a strict report time to make. "
I recall a colleague of mine (while serving) was not given priority on his flight (this was United). He missed his flight due to a delay on his previous and they couldn't book him on another so he had to wait. They told him "You have no priority here just because you're in uniform" after he explicitly told them he has to report to duty.
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LTC Joseph Gross
Sure? Why not? Too many people try to abuse the uniform as well pretending it gives us privileges rather than responsibilities. I hope the guy was at least polite about it.
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LTC (Join to see)
People can have a thousand different things that they really need to be back home on time for that could directly affect their employment, business, school, medical treatments or whatever, that are as or more important to them as hitting a report date is to a military guy. I don't support the idea of giving a military person with a report date any priority over anyone else. If it's soooo critical that a servicemember absolutely be at a certain place on a certain date, try flying a day ahead of time to allow for the possibility of a delay. Let's face it--if that airport was closed due to weather the military wouldn't collapse because a soldier missed his report date.
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