Posted on Apr 12, 2017
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Posted in these groups: Article319418 21 no violence2 ViolenceUnited AirlinesFAAAe5debb6 Travel
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Responses: 25
LTC Joseph Gross
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Absolutely! They have policies in place which we all agree to abide by every time we buy a ticket. But they also need to realize there is a right way and a wrong way to accomplish this. BTW, I hold United much less at fault than I do the police officer involved for turning this into a spectacle. But what was he to do after being told there was a trespasser on the airplane? Best course of action would have been to continue raising the bribe to find a volunteer. I'm sure all of United would agree paying me $10000 or even $100000 to give up my seat would be a better solution than the black eye they received.
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LTC Joseph Gross
LTC Joseph Gross
7 y
PO3 Donald Murphy - You're missing the point. YOU benefit by over booking when you are that 101st guy with a ticket for a plane that holds 100. The airline never loses money because they so rarely have to pay out more than another flight and $400. Those stand by fliers you are talking about would not be there if not for the over booking policy...
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PO3 Donald Murphy
PO3 Donald Murphy
7 y
You can still glean that extra money from standby fliers without overbooking. Face it, if I need to get from A to B, I'm standby for EVERYTHING. Not just United. I'll fly anyone, right? So the airline has no way of knowing how many stand by flyers are there "just for them" or for anything else. I myself have asked Delta if they have a flight, gotten a "no" answer and then walked over to American, etc. If United doesn't have a standby seat I'm not going to continue waiting for them. I'll go somewhere else. And have. I've gone to four or five airlines at times.

Remember, before the gate opens, the flight is fully paid for. 100 seats. As you don't care if someone misses their flight as you don't refund their money, you have no reason to overbook. The booking should stop at 100 tickets. If ten people fail to show up, you announce that ten standby seats are available. If no one is there, you haven't lost. If only three people are there, you win.

People don't just randomly show up to the airport expecting standby tickets, so the overbooking culture is done out of stupidity, not greed. I'm standby because my already paid for flight got cancelled. I didn't just wake up and decide to go to the airport on the off-chance of scoring a cheap ticket. See what I mean?
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LTC Joseph Gross
LTC Joseph Gross
7 y
Never mind.
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PO3 John Wagner
PO3 John Wagner
7 y
1stSgt Nelson Kerr - (face/palm)
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SFC Intelligence Analyst
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It wasn't even overbookd or oversold. They had a crew of four from United that needed to get to another airport to make sure that flight didn't get cancelled. So they asked who would give up their seats. Of course no one wanted to. Why would anyone? I'm not giving up my seat because you didn't plan your employees' travel very well. Then they offer $800. Really? What's that going to help you with? You would have to probably spend the night there to get a new flight. So you have to pay for hotel and food and whatever else and hotels in Chicago probably aren't cheap. There is no limit for what they can compensate someone in this situation. They should have kept pushing up the price. AND they don't do this on the plane. It's supposed to happen at check in or before people board. Not after. This was a horrible PR disaster for United who doesn't usually have the highest customer satisfaction to start with.

But that's ok because Sean Spicer saw this and said 'Oh I got you" and one upped them anyway.
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SGT Dave Tracy
SGT Dave Tracy
7 y
A rose by any other name...
I don't care what they call it. When you have a plane full of paying passengers, and don't have the room to accommodate more people (the employees), the effect is the same. Their logistics and operations could use a little bit of work along with their customer service. You're right that United should have negotiated a better deal (money, hotel, etc) to get one more customer off...bet they regret that decision!

BTW, I think what Sean Spicer actually said to United was "Hold my beer, watch this."
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MAJ Raymond Haynes
MAJ Raymond Haynes
7 y
First of all, they were not United Airlines employees, the were Republic Airlines employees. Second, The last minute need to board deadheading crews is not in and of itself, a sign of poor aircrew management. It was the last flight that they could legally transport the reserve crew (on standby at the airport) to cover a trip the next morning. Third, No airline employee (United or Republic) touched the guy, it was the ORD airport security. The problem here is that they are a lot harder to sue. If United had chose to take this the whole trip through the courts, they would have won. However, a poor corporate decision, from a PR decision. Get it off the front page as fast as possible and give the guy his millions, before the stupid copy cats come out of the woodwork and start crying that they made her pee in a cup.
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Cpl Justin Goolsby
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No it's not fair and in this specific example, the plane wasn't overbooked. The company just felt it was more important to put their aircrew in seats after the paying customers were already seated.

If the company needed seats open to get a crew into another city, they should have literally been the first people on the plane before anyone started boarding.

It's one thing if the person was being a disruption, threatening, etc. Then fine, remove them from the plane. But asking someone to leave and then ejecting them because they refused crosses the line.
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Do you feel it's fair for an airline to deplane (in any way) a paying passenger when they are oversold?
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CPT Jack Durish
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In my experience, the airline offered cash incentives to passengers who voluntarily deplaned an overbooked flight. I took advantage of one on an occasion when my schedule allowed it. Obviously, in the case, United would have saved themselves a lot of trouble and money had they simply chartered a plane to take their crew where needed.
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PO2 Peter Klein
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And with the recent incident, some United idiot only had to offer a $1000.00 to passengers who would give up their seats and problem solved. A lot less expensive than the bad publicity and the lawsuit that is sure to come.
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CW4 Robert C.
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If and when that comes to fruition, then they should look at the computer and see who has the earlier date of purchase. And if it is just for a flight team member to catch a flight well then that member will have to wait because the paying customer is always right.
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MSgt James Mullis
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No! Once a passenger has been allowed to board the plane, with a valid ticket and seat assignment, he has a right to the seat. Despite what is being repeated in the press, the flight was not overbooked. The passengers were being kicked off the plane so the Airline could board a flight crew that was needed at the flight's destination point. This is an important detail because there are specific FAA rules that apply to removing a passenger from a flight and they were not followed in this case. FYI: they include substantially more than a $800 flight voucher (the last time I read the rule it was 2.5 times the cost of your original ticket). It's amazing that they failed to offer appropriate recompense for volunteers to give up their seats. When they offered a travel voucher worth up to $800 and did not get a volunteer, they should have offered 1st Class upgrades and/or cash till they had a volunteer. I'm sure the airline will argue in court that they were trying to speed things up, reduce any delay in the flights take off time, and would have informed him of his rights once he de-boarded.

The second mistake was made by the police and security officers involved. Once they decided to use force against the Doctor, they had a responsibility for his personal safety. Dragging him out of the plane by his arms and legs was unprofessional and not in accordance with standard police procedure. Once he resisted, you take him into custody, put him in handcuffs and walk him off the plane. If he refuses to walk you put an officer under each arm and carry him out. If he kicks, you tie his legs and carry him out.

At this point I would guess that the Airline, the Airport, and the Police Department are throwing cash at the passenger in hopes that this whole story will just go away.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
PO3 Donald Murphy
7 y
I hope he screws them with (insert analogy of your choice here).
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SSG(P) Casualty Operations Ncoic
SSG(P) (Join to see)
7 y
I'm sure he's got a damned good team of attorneys begging to take the case.
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MAJ Raymond Haynes
MAJ Raymond Haynes
7 y
They were not police officers, they were security officers trained by the Chicago police. They never had, and do not still, have any arrest authority. They do have communication with the ORD police to come and do it for them. The guy really had everyone by the short ones until he ran back down the Jetway the second time. If United decided to do the legal goat rope all the way to the end, they would have won, and the lawyers would have to hump the City of Chicago's leg. United wisely decided to settle before the PR stink got even worse. The true travesty of this whole event is the mountain of incorrect information that was released by the press as facts, the blogs of so called "cabin captains" passing themselves off as experts, and the chicken-shit CEO of Republic Airlines, who was curled-up under his bed shaking, while United took all the heat. SFC Fuerhoff was right about one thing, United's customer service needs a complete re-work, it sucks. What they don't need is bunch of peanut cruncher vigilantes.
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MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
7 y
Shhh, facts are not allowed. Now, back to blamingUnited.
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Capt Wayne Klug
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I have been with United Airlines for 29 years.
Yes, the over booking policy should be looked at but it's really a mathematical economic issue.

However, when you are instructed to deplane, get off. Take the voucher and next flight. Don't be an ass.
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LTC Joseph Gross
LTC Joseph Gross
7 y
Good policy. Even if you are in the right, you aren't going to win this argument. Get off the plane and if you have a true grievance, handle it afterward.
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MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
7 y
LTC Joseph Gross - Agree, good policy for those of us that are used to taking orders from those with authority. However, that doesn't make you a millionaire like a beat down and being dragged down the aisle of a plane. Note, he didn't lose his phone.
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TSgt Kenneth Ellis
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What's funny is it is a four hour drive to Kentucky. United could have drove there crew there. Now instead of paying 800 dollars to give up the seat. It is going to cost them millions. In lost revenue. Gov. Crist Cristie is already requesting a proub into these airline practices.
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MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
7 y
Actually, no real effects on ticket sales, we have a near monopoly in the airline business and they have little to fear. Lawsuits, on the other hand....
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SFC Intelligence Analyst
SFC (Join to see)
7 y
Ticket sales aren't the only thing that affects their business. So ticket sales haven't gone down. But now these things have happened:
Investigation - so that means all their practices are going to be investigated not just this incident.
PR disaster - this doesn't help their image and other airlines are cashing in on it.
They've lost $250 million in market revenue. Their shares dropped 4% on Tuesday and even though they recovered to 1% by the end of the day it was a $250 million loss. Over $800. So yes United is suffering from this debacle.
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TSgt Kenneth Ellis
TSgt Kenneth Ellis
7 y
Now the Government will be looking into these practices. This is the first time I've seen a passenger being dragged of a plane. I would have liked to have seen. Everyone getting off the plan in solidarity.
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MSgt James Mullis
MSgt James Mullis
7 y
SFC (Join to see) - FYI: The loss in stock value will equate to millions of dollars in lost bonus money for the CEO. That is if he isn't fired first.
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Lt Col Jim Coe
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If they offer financial inducement and the passenger accepts it (thus making a defacto contract), then the passenger should deplane. Otherwise only illegal or dangerous behavior should allow the airline to force a passenger off a flight. As a pilot, I support the idea of getting a passenger with dangerous or aberrant behavior off the flight while it's on the ground. Example: cursing at an airline employee or threatening bodily harm. Nothing good will come of these types of passengers at 35,000 feet over the middle of the Atlantic with 450 other people on board. Safety of crew and passengers must remain the first consideration.
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MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
7 y
I haven't flown for some time, but as I recall, there used to be a provision on your ticket telling you this can happen, that too is a contract.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
PO3 Donald Murphy
7 y
MCPO Roger Collins - It is and this does happen regularly. Happens to me all the time and its pretty delicious. I get free hotel, food, money plus tickets. I needed to fly from Charlotte to Orlando on American and they pulled the same shenanigans. Needed people to give up seats. They announced the terms and I almost broke my arm raising it.

I stayed in the hotel outside Charlotte Airport (whatever that one was), got dinner in their lounge, room service beer and a guaranteed flight the next day. Plus they gave me a 25% coupon good for any future flight and $800. Can't beat that. Used that money to pay for my upcoming vacation next month...
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
1stSgt Nelson Kerr
7 y
The aberrant behavior in this seems to be mostly limited to UA personnel
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MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
7 y
That is how it's supposed to work. In my experience, I was heading to a business meeting or returning, with changes of planes. Never once in 20 years did I have the time or convenience of accepting the offer, but the offer was always acceptable to some. Always.
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