Do you feel that Basic Combat Training and Advanced Individual Training are due a facelift?

CW2 (Join to see) First, Climb to Glory!!! Second, what do you think? I am now 4 years removed from our Army. BCT and AIT were updated dramatically after 9/11 and things that went awry in OEF and OIF. That has been 10-15 years, so yes, training always need to maintain pace with the world us. But, as you likely know, TRADOC is not good at change.

they need to be reworked and make sure the troops are really prepared...

I'm not sure how they are now, but if its any worse than when I went through it 4 years ago.. that can't be good. From my experience BCT was a cake walk, and we had many of privates that would actually back talk to the DS with no real punishment. They were all there with us on graduation day. On top of that I don't think I learned anything at all in my AIT (42A). There were many of times that we would go to the classroom and not even have an instructor for half the day. At other times the instructor wouldn't have the resources for each student to access programs on the computer, so for things as important as updating ERBs by regulation were taught in like 5 mins by looking over your neighbor's shoulder. Then after some time at my first unit, we get a group of 3 privates straight from AIT. Me being the only SPC at the time is put in charge to train them. On top of their lack of knowledge (which I expected) 2 of them fail their first APFT. Along with this one would complain non-stop for having to work past 1600, and would show little to no effort in trying to learn their daily task. BCT and AIT could definitely use a revision.

Can't actually relate as I went Infantry OSUT and then few years later reclassed for my new MOS, so my frame of reference does not include a separate basic and advanced individual training, it was a rolling buildup in training and comprehensive throughout, not "here's how to be a soldier and now here's how to do your job". For me it was one in the same.

It might sound like a good way to do things on the surface, but unfortunately for the bulk of the Army (all branches really), it would most likely be overwhelming, expensive and functionally impracticable to do that for each and every MOS. Some of the other MOSs with larger numbers of recruits might be a good place to expand on the OSUT concept, but not all.

Now...if the heart of the question is more about what recruits need to know to be a soldier/sailor/marine/airman, that they do not know now, then I'd say yes. Basic is the single best place to learn their branch's history, heritage, customer, courtesies and place in the grand scheme of the American military. If the concern is they have not become a master at their specific job, well, that's not the point of basic and AIT. It's foundational and recruits build on that foundation once they get to their unit after initial training. Beyond this, I have no opinion.

I went to BCT in March of 2007 at Fort Benning. From the first day we arrived at our actual training platoons (not 30th AG) we were constantly watched, assessed, trained, and punished. My platoon started with 78 guys, and graduated 67, including 2 recycles. That first day, the Senior DS told us "I'm going to break you all off, and whoever survives will graduate." From the stats I just typed, he made good on his word. Being the second oldest recruit in my platoon (at 36 then turned 37 in Week 5) I had a little more maturity and perspective than the younger kids, but it was tough and draining both physically and emotionally. But after it all, I came to respect and admire that NCO; I had lunch with him right before I redeployed from Iraq.

When I arrived at AIT, there were still Drill Sergeants. It turns out my class was the second to last class to have them. They told us that they could pick out the Fort Benning Soldiers, as we had a different bearing, and a different level of discipline than Soldiers who came from BCT programs at other posts. Even at school, the most ominous threat was to call the DS down to the schoolhouse. I saw that happen once. It wasn't a happy thing for the offender. As we got to know our DS' in AIT, they lamented the change that would take DS' out of AIT. They all predicted that it would be a disaster, and that the quality of Soldier leaving AIT would be dramatically lower. They were right. Just now, the Army is rethinking taking DS' out of AIT. They are still needed, and should have never been taken out.

I have seen Soldiers arrive from AIT broken, on profile, and/or unable to pass a APFT. There really is no reason for that. BCT and AIT are not that tough where you come away from them broken and unable to function at your first unit. Marksmanship is another thing. I went to the range at AIT, but apparently marksmanship has fallen by the wayside at AIT for some reason. Relatedly, many new Soldiers have never fired a M-2, M-240, or M-249. I fired all of those weapons at Fort Benning. That is another skill that has been lost in TRADOC.

The overall level of respect of new Soldiers is lower as well. Just the other day I corrected two Soldiers who were outside smoking with no headgear on. I asked them if it was the right thing to do. They first said that they didn't think they needed headgear since they were close to the hangar. Then they changed their story to they didn't know they needed to wear headgear outdoors. I had to walk away before I did or said something regrettable. Now I am not as "Old School" as many of you, but I grew up in and around the Army. My dad is a retired Armored Cav LTC, so I know what "Old School" looked, felt, and sounded like. These new Soldiers have little to no Military Bearing, and want to question everything they are told. I am glad to explain things to them, but there has to be some Military Bearing on their part as well. Apparently TRADOC isn't teaching it.

CW2 (Join to see) , yes I feel a facelift is due. Seems like the Army is training the new Soldiers to be more sensitive to others.....which is nice and all....but it appears that the teaching of the BASICS is being cut short to make room for the MRT, the SHARP, the EO......and all the other Mandatory training that needs to be done (the mandatory ppt training that is). I've witnessed.....and experienced.....many a young Soldier not stand at Parade Rest for NCOs, not saluting Officers, and other all around basic military bearing. I do what I can to correct these issues when I see them, but I can't catch it all......unless someone decided to make this my full time military job. So, with that, not only should Basic and AIT be revamped.....but NCOES and OES need a little touch-up as well.

CW2 (Join to see) I am long gone!

Do Drills still sign a statement to the effect that they will serve in combat with a "graduated" trainee from their unit? MSgt George Cater Slick?

CW2 (Join to see) I went through Boot Camp and AIT in 1968 which was a few year back. The training needs to be tough and broad enough to cover most of the possible conflicts that we might be involved in. Our military will be involved in more conflicts that could erupt anywhere in the world.

It's really easy for us old timers and retirees to weigh in on this. I would like to hear from the current leaders and perhaps some of the young troopers regarding this

Well I worked BCT back in the 90's at Knox and was a range Cadre at Jackson in 05, all I can say the standard between the 2 was light years apart as far as discipline goes. I have also spent some time at Lee in 2013 and it seemed AIT was more like a college campus than what I went thru at Leonardwood. Cell phone in the chow line, civilian clothes on the weekends etc. (Some of those clothes on the weekend where very inappropriate to say the least.)