Do you think illegal immigrants should be able to use welfare/public assistance?

To be fair tho - you can't be illegal and get welfare. Welfare abuse and illegal workers are two different things. The illegals are over here working so that they can send money home. You can't send welfare and food stamps "home." Eliminate the jobs and they don't come over.

I clearly stated Welfare programs, not welfare in general. Illegal Aliens shouldn't qualify for any incentive programs. We have legal means for them to apply time immigrate and they should be able to prove why they'll be productive members of the American society.

Better yet - have the businesses that illegally hire them, assist them in going home right before THEY go to jail...

Why does a nation(America), trillions of dollars in debt, give away billions of dollars each year?

LT Richard Lambing - because of politics.

Here is a list of all the recipients of our largesse has shown improvement and appreciation.

Sgt Bob Leonard - Don't be fooled. Most employers have several documents that get filled out by the company and or the employee. There also is a free data search provided to employers to verify a SSN instantly. That above article is way off on how much has been taken in and sitting at the federal level. That number could be how much should be paid in, but I promise you it is mostly sitting in the employers bank account. When an employer knows he has hired an undocumented worker, he may take the tax money from the employee's check, but the company doesn't pay those taxes to the government. That way the government won't know the undocumented employee is even working and the undocumented employee won't complain about the benefits because he or she is happy to have a job and would be to afraid of deportation if they did complain. Its just not good for anyone and it undermines our way of life.

MCPO Roger Collins - You said, "Sometimes referred to as identity theft, breaking another of our laws."
Won't disagree with you on that.

You said, "Not to mention the thousands of dollars for education for their children."
Without reliable numbers, I've got nothing to say about that, either.

You said, "And (they) are not in the majority."
The meaning of that is kind of fuzzy to me. Who's "they"? And "not the majority" of what? The majority of all illegals? The majority of just Hispanic illegals?

You said, "How much is it costing the taxpayer for the unaccompanied children being sent here? Did the Atlantic note that?"
No, that particular article didn't address that topic. Do you have any reliable numbers on that? I mean accurate, reliable stats. Not some vague statement like "they're coming over in droves and destroying everything in their path like a plague of locusts".

I have a friend who owns a vineyard. As a favor to me, he took two of my kids on to work the harvest (two different years; my two kids are three years apart). Each time, my kid was the only Anglo working the vines, the rest were Hispanic. And my friend didn't have as many workers as he wanted/needed. But no matter what pay incentive he offered (within reason), he couldn't get any more Anglos, kids or adults, to work for him - at least, not consistently.

Both of my kids are hard workers. They're diligent to do a good job, whatever that job may be. (Between the two of them, they have over 14 years TIS, with three deployments to the Middle East.) Working harvest, the pickers get paid by the pound. Each of my kids were run into the ground by noon-time, while Hispanic kids younger than them were still going strong at sundown.

I sympathize with my friend, the vineyard owner. He works and invests all year long to grow a crop that he hopes will bring him a good income. But it always comes down to that two to six week window to harvest that's going to ultimately determine success or failure for that season. Even if he succeeds in growing a crop that will produce a gold medal vintage, if he doesn't have enough workers to harvest it when it's at it's prime, he's sunk. Sometimes the best he can do is send it to Welch's for grape juice or Smucker's for jam. (And that would work only if it's a purple grape variety.)

So, for the sake of my friend (and the really good wines he produces and sometimes sells to me at a discount), I don't get too upset about the "illegals" who work in agriculture, doing the jobs that MOST Anglos won't and/or can't do.

But that's just me.

(I don't have a lot of sympathy for those who cross over just to sponge off the system. Some, but not a lot. And I don't believe they are that big a segment of the whole, they just get a lot more attention.)

Sgt Bob Leonard - Everything I said can be found with a small amount of research. I didn't to homework assignment from my charges in the military or during my civilian career. Don't plan on doing it now. Your comments regarding the need of illegal aliens to do your manual labor should be offensive to all the legal migrants and Hispanic citizens living here. There is no doubt we need to have these people for our labor, because we provide so much cash to those that don't want to work, that we have to use foreign labor to do basic labor functions. More than once I have stated my opinion, that we need a guest worker program that meets our needs. The people hiring these "guests" should have to pay for the costs to the community, by increased taxes for the local communities. If you folks have to have cheap labor, don't expect us to subsidize you. And don't give me the you want cheap products crap, the market will take care of that. There is no doubt we have become a lazy society on the part of a few and Hispanics, in particular, have excellent work habits. Its like expecting all of us to pay for other states citizens and non-citizens needs. If they live in your state, you pay for them.

Sgt Bob Leonard - Your friend then, needs to be more intelligent in his planning. I picked fruit/veg as a teen in Cali for $2 an hour. Guess what? My aunts and uncles did the same thing for the same amount in the 50's and 60's. $2 an hour was a decent wage back then. Its not today. So if vineyard friend can't find enough legal workers then he needs to up the wage. If legal folk won't pick the fruit, the answer is not to turn to illegal labor. That's like saying "I don't have time to date, so I'll turn to rape to fulfill my sex needs." It doesn't work that way.

The nation has decided on insurance penalties and taxes that a person needs to pay. So anyone from McDonalds to Walmart to Boeing, needs to factor in that a prospective employee needs to pay those fines. Its the same in Europe. Drive by a Spanish olive grove and the olives are picked by Spaniards. Drive by a German road and the road work is being done by Germans. At no point have olive farmers gone out of business or have German roads been abandoned. Work can be done by citizens. The problem is that business people don't want to pay for the citizens. If a McDonald's burger flipper pulls down $8 per hour, then I'm thinking a fruit picker needs to earn the same.

GySgt Kenneth Pepper - Great that you're not that guy. Millions are. This is why in the year 2017 we still have illegal labor. Because millions are told to ignore it because "if you push us to action and we get rid of those illegal workers, the price of your goods will go through the roof." The prices shouldn't rise at all. By what basis other than the cost of living? If they do, the farmer is being greedy and he will go the way of the niche farmer. This is why the Walmart's, Aldi's and Savealots remain in business. Because people aren't generally going to pay $9 for a head of lettuce.

So if they truly can't make it by using legal labor, then you have to wonder what kind of operation they're running if the only way they can operate/succeed is by breaking the law. Aren't we supposed to arrest lawbreakers? So if ten businesses go out of business because "doing things legally" is too expensive, then I really don't know what to say that doesn't have the words "tough" and "crap" in the reply. As I've said many times before on many other immigration-minded threads, I have a greencarded wife and she did/does everything the proper/legal way. Farms can too. If not, there's really no other answer.

PO3 Donald Murphy - I think you misread me. Go back to the start of this thread and hit the restart button. I am not a proponent of illegal immigration or labor. My original comment spoke to the fact that most Americans are unwilling to perform manual labor for less than minimum wage. Especially when they know they can simply suck the government teet their entire life. Bravo to your wife for doing it right.
However, the fact that you refuse to accept the basic economic principles that goods must sell for more than the cost to produce them is something altogether different. I'm not sure why that point escapes you. You seem to be "adamant" about "point of view" so I'll just assume you cannot be "influenced" by "anyone".
It's 5:00. Go have a cocktail.

GySgt Kenneth Pepper - No misreading. One of your comments was concerning who will do the labor. It will get done. There are people who do it now. Minimum wage? Sure. Why not? There's people that sit in call centers for $10 an hour and that's grueling. You'll find someone that will pick veg/fruit for whatever is decided upon. I was an office manager for a construction company. We had no shortage of day laborers. Walking behind a bulldozer with a shovel in the Florida heat.

Economic principles always have two parts: what is hoped for and what is gotten. I'm not paying $5.00 for a head of lettuce. Irrespective of how "fair" the price is. I'm gonna reckon there's a lot of others that won't either. And I'm sure that when the factoring is said and done and a fair wage is settled on, it still has to pass customer muster. Walmart/stuffmart, etc, are not going to stock items that don't sell. And thats how life is. Balances. I sell expensive items on Ebay for pennies all the time, because I know that although my prospective prices are fair, people won't pay it. If people won't pay my price I either cry about it or lower the price. Do I spite myself by not selling because I'm angry that no one is meeting my price?

You'll be pleased to know that as you outrank me I followed your orders and had a rum and coke. Or two. Or three... Damn that's good rum...

The simple fact remains illegals are costing us billions and veterans are having a difficult time getting the help they need. No to illegals and yes to using the money to help the vets, period.

How? Simple. We elect people that allow business to do it. They are not here for our food, our culture or our beaches. They are here because our politicians allow big business (and little business) to hire illegals and suffer no consequences.

Take one company in each state that hires illegals. Fire everyone on the spot, legal and illegal. Deport the illegals. Jail the employee's that hired the illegals (upper management). Sell the entire company. Use the profits from the sale to pay for the deportation of the illegals. Deny the unemployed legal Americans the ability to collect benefits. How many times would you have to do that? I'm thinking once. Pretty soon word will get around and you'll read of HR teams and executives being lynched/killed/tortured by employee's who discovered they were assisting illegal aliens in getting jobs. Aliens taken THAT DAY/NIGHT to the border and pushed through the gate will then go on their nation's equivalent of social media and likewise tell of an America that "no longer wants us."

Problem solved.

My wife works at a school in Florida and our county (like many in the state) has free breakfast for *ALL* students and free lunch for *LOW INCOME* students. The application procedure is pretty slim as you can imagine. However, the majority are American/citizen students. So its gonna be an uphill struggle. A ton of un-insured folk go to the ER as well. And while all staff "ask" for name and address, the catch 22 is that they still have to treat you, whether you give one or not.