Posted on Mar 12, 2020
Does having received a draft notice make someone a veteran?
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Last night a person that I know from a local motorcycle group (not Legion) said that the group honored her father who recently passed with a flag line. She said that they pressured her into the flag line even though her father never served in the military and she told them that. The headquarters President justified it by saying, “Well he received a draft notice, didn’t he?”
Later in the conversation, she mentioned one of our mutual friends as being a veteran and that he would not have allowed anything like stolen valor. I told her he was not a veteran and that we actually both belonged to the same American Legion and he grew up hanging around the American Legion post, but he is a member of the Sons of the American Legion; he is not a Legionnaire, not a dual member, and he is not a veteran. We argued for about five minutes over this and I finally hung up.
I’m returning my colors tomorrow; I never even wore them but I don’t feel comfortable with this group now.
I see the draft notice as different from actually having served. Am I wrong?
03/16/2020 Edit: Yesterday, one of the members contacted me back and clarified, "The flag lines are for anyone we want to honor, first responders, military, and our families are very high on the list." As they say here in Phila, "I'm feelin some type of way about this." I told him he needs to educate the entire group on who their flag lines are for, and as a representative of the organization, the secretary should know better.
03/23/2020 Edit: The moto group is NOT the Legion Riders -just a local moto org that promotes themselves a veterans and first responders group)
09/07/20 Edit: Well, after much anxiety, I wanted to update about this. Covid hit and I haven't been back to that group. The Sgt at Arms felt I shouldn't make any hasty decisions, but I just knew it wasn't a right fit. More recently, after watching the group respond to peaceful BLM march with "No they don't" when marchers proclaimed, "Black Lives Matter," and screaming at the marchers "Black Lives Splatter," display their flag line as if fellow protesting citizens aren't patriotic, use the local VFW with confederate flags and a woman veteran screaming and flipping off protesters, and watching two of their trucks dump black diesel smoke right in front of peacefully marching protesters, I cut ties with the group by initially removing the vast majority from facebook. The very next day, their Sgt At Arms felt the need to send me a private message on FB, "I see you unfriended me, friend," with a big ole thumbs up, which I ignored. A few days later, he sent me this big long Trump rant about how he was supporting troops (he never served) and I let him have it. I told him I don't care who he votes for, but his behavior doesn't represent me, and if he contacted me again, I'd file harassment charges -and I blocked him on messenger. Two days later he sends a text, "I've been ordered to collect our patches from you. Namely our backpatch and alpha chapter." I told him I burned them and that if he contacted me again, I'd involve the police. So that's that. Always go with your gut.
Later in the conversation, she mentioned one of our mutual friends as being a veteran and that he would not have allowed anything like stolen valor. I told her he was not a veteran and that we actually both belonged to the same American Legion and he grew up hanging around the American Legion post, but he is a member of the Sons of the American Legion; he is not a Legionnaire, not a dual member, and he is not a veteran. We argued for about five minutes over this and I finally hung up.
I’m returning my colors tomorrow; I never even wore them but I don’t feel comfortable with this group now.
I see the draft notice as different from actually having served. Am I wrong?
03/16/2020 Edit: Yesterday, one of the members contacted me back and clarified, "The flag lines are for anyone we want to honor, first responders, military, and our families are very high on the list." As they say here in Phila, "I'm feelin some type of way about this." I told him he needs to educate the entire group on who their flag lines are for, and as a representative of the organization, the secretary should know better.
03/23/2020 Edit: The moto group is NOT the Legion Riders -just a local moto org that promotes themselves a veterans and first responders group)
09/07/20 Edit: Well, after much anxiety, I wanted to update about this. Covid hit and I haven't been back to that group. The Sgt at Arms felt I shouldn't make any hasty decisions, but I just knew it wasn't a right fit. More recently, after watching the group respond to peaceful BLM march with "No they don't" when marchers proclaimed, "Black Lives Matter," and screaming at the marchers "Black Lives Splatter," display their flag line as if fellow protesting citizens aren't patriotic, use the local VFW with confederate flags and a woman veteran screaming and flipping off protesters, and watching two of their trucks dump black diesel smoke right in front of peacefully marching protesters, I cut ties with the group by initially removing the vast majority from facebook. The very next day, their Sgt At Arms felt the need to send me a private message on FB, "I see you unfriended me, friend," with a big ole thumbs up, which I ignored. A few days later, he sent me this big long Trump rant about how he was supporting troops (he never served) and I let him have it. I told him I don't care who he votes for, but his behavior doesn't represent me, and if he contacted me again, I'd file harassment charges -and I blocked him on messenger. Two days later he sends a text, "I've been ordered to collect our patches from you. Namely our backpatch and alpha chapter." I told him I burned them and that if he contacted me again, I'd involve the police. So that's that. Always go with your gut.
The American Legion
Motorcycles
Selective Service (the Draft)
Stolen Valor
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 93
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To be a vet is to serve at lease 6 months honorably in service. The best description of a veteran that I have ever read is this: "A VETERAN is someone who at on point in their life wrote a blank check made payable to the UNITED STATES of AMERICA up to and including their life." A person that gives back what their nation has given to them. A love of country for all of those that seem not to care care in the least for the VET. Today, it seems reminiscent of the Nam era where the vet doesn't count for anything, yet he/she serves with honor and gratitude to a grateful nation. I served 10 years in the U.S. Navy, 1 tour in Nam, and then 28 years with Tennessee Valley Authority (Public safety officer). I feel that I served 38 years for my country. In TVA, I was a Federal policeman, an EMT, a Fireman, and a rescue person, although this was just on TVA property. I served as a volunteer in the local Fire Dept., a volunteer in the local Rescue Squad, and a volunteer on an Ambulance. So I served my country and my community. I am grateful for the service I performed for my country and my community. I know that I did not serve 20/30 years in the Navy as many of you have, but I feel that I served my Country and community. I thank every serviceman and woman that has or is serving now. I welcome home everyone who has served in combat somewhere in this world. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to get on the soap box and tell so much, but what I said is the truth. The check was paid in full. I am now 78 years of age, and I remember a lot of what I have done over the years. As Johnny Cash sung a song about "A RAGGEDY OLE FLAG," He ended the song, saying that he was proud of that raggedy ole flag. So am I, even when I was taking ROTC in High School. I hope that everyone agrees with me on that one item.
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There is no Oath of Office administered unless enlisted or inducted, not for showing up for getting the letter, or even taking the induction physical and being classified 1A. The Oath is what makes a member of the military, whether by enlistment or by commission (I am privileged to have taken the Oath under both conditions).
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Unless You actually got drafted and served in uniform for at least 180 days You are NOT a Veteran. The exception would be if separated due to injury as a result of Military service prior to that required service time or service that a DD Form 214 was issued for. A daft notice is a piece of paper NOT Military service Not everyone that gets a draft notice is accepted, they may be rejected for one reason or another to even begin service.
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Really? The type of foolishness you have described contributes to 'Stolen Valor".
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SrA Sheila Holmes
Yesterday, one of the members contacted me back and clarified, "The flag lines are for anyone we want to honor, first responders, military, and our families are very high on the list." I told him he needs to educate the entire group on who their flag lines are for, and as a representative of the organization, the secretary should know better.
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SrA Sheila Holmes
SGT Dan Gray This is not an American Legion group, but I agree with your final assessment.
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SrA Sheila Holmes It's very simple if you did not serve on active duty you are not a veteran. I've heard it said that if you don't serve for 180 days you are not a veteran (I'm not sure about that one). Ask to see his DD-214 that will end the argument.
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SrA Sheila Holmes
SPC Richard Zacke I hear you; I just have known this guy for eight years; he never served.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
Usually 180 days Military service to qualify for a veteran but here are exceptions, such as disabled due to Military service or other Military service on a case to case basis that produced a DD Form 214. In any even the service has to be honorable.
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SPC Richard Zacke
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter I was told that if a soldier serves less than 180 days his commanding officer does not have enough time to evaluate him and he is issued a unchariterized discharge, I could be wrong with the name, and is not a veteran. I had never heard of this when I went through BCT & AIT maybe it's something new. I did read a post about it on RP but I did'nt know enough to comment on it. I did read that a disability within that period could get you a medical discharge. I'm 100% TDIU after only 3.5 years of my four year contract which I had just re-enlisted for my second four year contract, I would have signed a twenty year contract if I could, the military was my dream since I was 12 y/o watching those Vietnam vets walking through the airport and poeple yelling at them and calling them baby killers. I was very impressed by the professional way those soldiers carried themselfs with their heads up with pride. I just had to be a part of something that great!!! So four days after high school graduation on July 11, 1978 I was at Ft. Leanard Wood, MO learning that pride I so vividley recalled seeing in the faces of those Heros coming home.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
SPC Richard Zacke - Often they would get a GENERAL DISCHARGE under Honorable CONDITIONS if under 180 days which does NOT qualify as a Honorable Discharge. Usually that applies and exceptions are on a case by case basis. This isn't anything new, it always has been at least in My lifetime span. There are people that have retired with a disability that hadn't reached 20 years but again that is on a case by case basis after its been evaluated. Decisions can be appealed. Clearly You are well qualified as a Veteran with 3.5 years, I spent 22 Years in uniform and have no disability at all. I may add I'm a Vietnam Veteran and spent most of 1968 there and the earlier part of 1969. My Dad, Who is now 94 was a WWII Veteran and also served during the Korean war. SPC Zacke, Thank You for Your Military service !
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SrA Sheila Holmes
People worry about a lot of things; I’m sure there are plenty of folks who have no interest in the things that concern you.
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You are exactly correct. The problem is, no doubt, at the local level. that is not, and has never been,the policy of The American Legion.
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SGT Robert Pryor
SrA Sheila Holmes - I had to go back and read your post again. It is I that failed to accurately comprehend your original message. I apologize. I got confused by mistakenly thinking the motorcycle group was operating under The American Legion. I see now that there is no connection beyond people just happen to be affiliated with both groups and speaking about different individuals anyway -- the deceased father, plus one other individual. The mistake was all mine. It's a good thing this was not a reading comprehension test. I would have failed.
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SrA Sheila Holmes
SGT Robert Pryor Thank you for taking the time to do that. I was wondering if I should clarify further. Have a great day.
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SGT Robert Pryor
SrA Sheila Holmes - Nope, you did fine. I allowed my understanding to get clouded from reading the words"American Legion" in some of the posts.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
Son's of the Legion isn't a group of Veterans and never has been and neither is the Legion Auxiliary. They do support the post but are NOT Veterans. The regular post Membership You must have served in the Armed Forces and have a DD Form 214 or earlier form of the Honorable Discharge which would apply to the Department of War Form prior to the DOD being established. Without the form for that Honorable Discharge You are NOT qualified to be a member of the American Legion.,
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