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Posted on Jan 21, 2016
Does the military have the right to control what you are allowed to believe... religiously speaking?
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If you believe you can have multiple wives or husbands, can the military say no? Or the government as a whole, can they say, "if you believe that, you are not allowed in our military", even though it does not hinder your performance, military manner, or evals. Does religious beliefs complicate a military career?
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Religion
Posted 10 y ago
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I'll just take your questions in order...
1. No, the military does not have a right to control what you are allowed to believe. Believe whatever you want! It's your actions regarding that belief that are regulated - not just for religion, but for everything else too.
2. If you "believe" you can have multiple wives... religiously, that's on you. Legally, the law does not currently agree with you - and it is the law that the military must respect and follow. It's not the military that restricts your ability to legally marry more than one person - it's the law.
3. The military won't stop you from being IN the military. They just stop you from being married to multiple people. The military won't kick you out just for believing it's ok. You may get kicked out for acting on it and breaking the law.
4. Do religious beliefs complicate a military career? Absolutely. But its not usually because of the marriage aspect. Some religions have prohibitions on violence - that would make it difficult to stay in the military because of the conflict of interest. In that case, it's up to the servicemember to determine where their loyalties lie. Is it in their religion, or their military service that takes precedence? If religion takes priority, then the servicemember has the obligation to remove themselves from service - either through regular ETS or by requesting release under "conscientious objector" status.
1. No, the military does not have a right to control what you are allowed to believe. Believe whatever you want! It's your actions regarding that belief that are regulated - not just for religion, but for everything else too.
2. If you "believe" you can have multiple wives... religiously, that's on you. Legally, the law does not currently agree with you - and it is the law that the military must respect and follow. It's not the military that restricts your ability to legally marry more than one person - it's the law.
3. The military won't stop you from being IN the military. They just stop you from being married to multiple people. The military won't kick you out just for believing it's ok. You may get kicked out for acting on it and breaking the law.
4. Do religious beliefs complicate a military career? Absolutely. But its not usually because of the marriage aspect. Some religions have prohibitions on violence - that would make it difficult to stay in the military because of the conflict of interest. In that case, it's up to the servicemember to determine where their loyalties lie. Is it in their religion, or their military service that takes precedence? If religion takes priority, then the servicemember has the obligation to remove themselves from service - either through regular ETS or by requesting release under "conscientious objector" status.
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LTC (Join to see)
PO2 Morton Scisco - no, the answer is no, they can't control what you believe. They (or rather the legal system) can control what you act on.
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LTC (Join to see)
PO2 Morton Scisco - I believe you are interpreting the response that you want to out of MAJ Bryan Zeski comments. The government cannot control what you believe in only the actions that come of those beliefs. Take for instance Rastafarians believe that smoking marijuana is a way to cleanse their soul and commune with God. That is fine to believe that, and you can be a Rastafarian in the military, but you still have to abide by the rules and regulations that the military states while you are in. It does nothing to stop you from believing whatever you believe, just from practicing actions that are against the law or other regulations.
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MAJ Bryan Zeski
PO2 Morton Scisco - I thought I was relatively clear. No, the government doesn't control what you believe. Yes, the government does control, to some extent, your actions in response to those beliefs.
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MAJ Bryan Zeski
MSgt Mike Mikulski - Honestly, all the things you mentioned would have zero effect on military capability. They are there simply as a traditional morality thing. Even marijuana. It's already been shown that marijuana is less harmful and less addictive than alcohol, so the point of banning it has nothing to do with anything practical, it's just a throw-back ban.
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Well, on polygamy, the military won't acknowledge any other spouse than the ONE you list. Attempting to enroll your 2nd (or 3rd) wife as a dependent is fine --as long as her predecessor is replaced with the most current... AND your divorce decree is finalized. Otherwise, polygamy is either a misdemeanor or felony in every state of the union. Truly not sure how the UCMJ addresses this... if it even does? Anyway, why would anyone want more than one wife? I can barely handle one.
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LTC (Join to see)
I remember a comedian saying that he was investigating which religion to have, and thought that ones that allowed multiple wives sounded great. That is until he got married. Bada bing!
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MAJ Bryan Zeski
LTC (Join to see) - I think the way to work the "multiple spouse" thing is to have them on a rotation. One week here, one week there... and so on.
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LTC (Join to see)
MAJ Bryan Zeski - that might work, as long as they can keep their husband rotation straight as well!
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I'm not aware of any religious belief that requires polygamy so I'm not sure how you can claim that a restriction on polygamy is hindering your religious belief. There is also nothing stopping you from living together with 1,000 women if that's what floats your boat... you can however only call one of them your wife. In the civilian world you could settle for having 999 concubines and 1 wife instead of 1,000 wives... however in our society you are limited to 1 wife at a time.
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SFC Greg Bruorton
SSG (Join to see) - It is unclear to me if the Fundamentalists claim more than one true wife as the laws recognize, but they do practice polygamy which is unlawful in all of the United States. They refer to their wives as wife#1, wife#2, etc with its own hierarchy.
What's more dangerous is that women are subjugated from early teen years and "expected" to marry a man sometimes twice her age. They live confined and closely regulated in all they do.
I find the practice abhorrent in the way their women are controlled and manipulated through the expectations of a false prophet.
False teachings of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is their platform regardless how they interpret the scriptures.
We are expected to obey the laws of the land; the Fundamentalists clearly do not.
I appreciate your comments.
What's more dangerous is that women are subjugated from early teen years and "expected" to marry a man sometimes twice her age. They live confined and closely regulated in all they do.
I find the practice abhorrent in the way their women are controlled and manipulated through the expectations of a false prophet.
False teachings of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is their platform regardless how they interpret the scriptures.
We are expected to obey the laws of the land; the Fundamentalists clearly do not.
I appreciate your comments.
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SSG (Join to see)
SFC Greg Bruorton - If they insist that they have multiple legal wives, then they are breaking the law. If they only claimed one legal wife and several life partners, I don't believe the law would have any grounds to say anything. My point is that the legal hangup is really nothing more than semantics. From a religious perspective it should be irrelevant how secular society classifies or does not classify the relationship.
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SFC Greg Bruorton
SSG (Join to see) - If only we could explain your narrative to those imprisoned for years for practicing polygamy before Congress passed the law for the Church in Utah. Even after the law was passed, members of the Church were imprisoned as they tried to extricate themselves from wives and children that were dear to them.
The President of the Church at the time, Wilford Woodruff, had prayed much to the Lord about the dilemma the Church faced. As recorded as Official Declaration--1 in the Doctrine and Covenants of the Church, he and the Quorum of the Twelve unanimously approved of the new law and would abide by it. If not, the U.S. Government would raze the temples and churches to the ground and hence the saving ordinances would be placed in jeopardy.
The President of the Church at the time, Wilford Woodruff, had prayed much to the Lord about the dilemma the Church faced. As recorded as Official Declaration--1 in the Doctrine and Covenants of the Church, he and the Quorum of the Twelve unanimously approved of the new law and would abide by it. If not, the U.S. Government would raze the temples and churches to the ground and hence the saving ordinances would be placed in jeopardy.
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SSG (Join to see)
SFC Greg Bruorton - There are people living and practicing alternative family arrangements around the country with no legal issues. The primary difference is only one person gets the title of legal husband or wife. Trump is on his third wife, if the other two moved in with him again it's not like they would be breaking the law... even though only one had legal status.
There were some serious problems with separation of Church and State back when the government was persecuting Mormons.
There were some serious problems with separation of Church and State back when the government was persecuting Mormons.
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Real accounts of the encroachment on religious freedom in the military
It was never a problem when I was in - but it seems to have become a problem under this administration, if these accounts are to be believed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-PDR9Gxvvc#t=151
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-PDR9Gxvvc#t=151
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MCPO Roger Collins
It was not an issue for many years, religious and non-religious coexisted with no problems. As with any culture destroying agendas, the military leaders have to jump on board.
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Capt Seid Waddell
MCPO Roger Collins, roger that! It has been my experience, however, that it rolls downhill from the top of the heap.
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MCPO Roger Collins
Capt Seid Waddell - Our tiny country school board just removed A flag that has been in the meeting room for decades because of a single complaint. The purge of Christianity continues inexorably. But, on the bright side, the 7th graders are indoctrinated with the Muslim religion for two weeks. Don't throw away your white flags of surrender.
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Capt Seid Waddell
MCPO Roger Collins, this liberal PC is the rot that will destroy our country and our culture.
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The military cannot control what you believe but they do have some say as far as practices go if such practices go against morale or legal code. For example, if you are a part of a religion that believes in sacrificing a human being the military is not going to allow that (for obvious reasons). Same can be said about polygamy, the military doesn't allow you to so much as sleep with another woman or man if you are married. Even in divorce cases you aren't allowed to see someone else until it is fully finalized to my understanding. So that being said, no, you won't be able to have multiple wives or husbands, at least not anytime soon.
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Think you are looking for needles in a haystack. 1. No One can control your beliefs. 2. The laws passed by our/your representative government states what is Legal and what is not. 3. The military as part of the Government must enforce the Laws of the government (UCMJ). 4. Because of the nature of the duty in the military, they can limit what you physically do, not mentally. 5. The military has standards for enlisting- none which are based on religious items with in reason. Beliefs can cause some trouble- Quakers for instance can not carry weapons so no combat MOS for them. I have not seen a 4 star Quaker in my lifetime, so there are limits on career progression.
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The military IS NOT a democracy. You join under THEIR rules. Can they control your beliefs - no. Can they control your actions - yes.
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I wish I could say no, but I can't. The Amish Bus Driver Rule is the first hurdle. Do your beliefs interfere your ability to do the job. I remember Quaker Medics and a couple of other accomidations
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Believe? No. Believe whatever you want. It's what you say and do that may get you in trouble.
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They have no right so ever to control what you think. However they reserve all rights to control what you say and what you do.
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