Posted on Sep 18, 2016
Does White Privilege exist? If so, do you think White Supremacy exists also?
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I know I'm probably playing with fire and causing people to be uncomfortable, but I can honestly sit and have this conversation with anyone and not get upset. I just want to know peoples views who served and who is currently serving now. If you don't think any of it exist please explain why. Thanks
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 147
I grew up near the inner city and had friends from every walk of life and every race and observed this; whomever was in power and the majority in the area they tended to be racist and suspicious of 'outsiders' which meant anyone different. I saw this amoung every race. No matter what the race, color, religion I saw this to be true especially amoung two groups: the rich and the poor.
The rich because many view themselves as better than others (again regardless of race) and they could afford to be racist and insulate themselves from that which was different and then the poor who overwhelmingly tend to have poor educations and feel they have to fight for every little inch of freedom, life and opportunity AGAIN regardless of color. The middle class have to get along because we have no choice and as statistics show really aren't absorbed as the poor and rich are about race. Like many before them, my immigrant grandparents saw zero benefit to their skin color or race. Recent history has attempted to erase our individuality and deny or rich ethnic differences attempting to glob us all together under the meaningless umbrella called "white or Caucasian". There is an obvious stigma today associated with being male and Caucasian with significant legal implications for academic and work opportunities that cannot be denied. It is sad an contrary to the vision and hope of great men like the Reversnd Martin Luther King who so wisely said "that I want my children raised in a country where they are judged by the content of their character NOT by the color of their skin". I want that blessing for my young daughter and all of Americans children.
So there is one race; human race and one real privilege, wealth which can be earned but the majority of real wealth is often inherited. That is the greatest privilege. We must return to the constitution and safe guard everyone's rights equally as "one nation, indivisible with liberty and justice for all".
The rich because many view themselves as better than others (again regardless of race) and they could afford to be racist and insulate themselves from that which was different and then the poor who overwhelmingly tend to have poor educations and feel they have to fight for every little inch of freedom, life and opportunity AGAIN regardless of color. The middle class have to get along because we have no choice and as statistics show really aren't absorbed as the poor and rich are about race. Like many before them, my immigrant grandparents saw zero benefit to their skin color or race. Recent history has attempted to erase our individuality and deny or rich ethnic differences attempting to glob us all together under the meaningless umbrella called "white or Caucasian". There is an obvious stigma today associated with being male and Caucasian with significant legal implications for academic and work opportunities that cannot be denied. It is sad an contrary to the vision and hope of great men like the Reversnd Martin Luther King who so wisely said "that I want my children raised in a country where they are judged by the content of their character NOT by the color of their skin". I want that blessing for my young daughter and all of Americans children.
So there is one race; human race and one real privilege, wealth which can be earned but the majority of real wealth is often inherited. That is the greatest privilege. We must return to the constitution and safe guard everyone's rights equally as "one nation, indivisible with liberty and justice for all".
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LTC (Join to see)
SGT Alan Dike - SGT Dike, you inuendos on integrity do not suggest the same integrity you are demanding. You have me wrong SGT. You are assuming upon my intent. Incorrectly I may add.
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LTC (Join to see)
LTC (Join to see) - My spell check seems to have died. Excuse the spelling. My remote app won't allow me to correct
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SGT Alan Dike
Major, I'm interested where I made any inuendos.. I said exactly what I meant. Nothing more or less was intended. As to speaking with integrity? I think it lacks integrity to misquote, for whatever purpose. You can steer the conversation quite easily without the misquote. And yes, it appears I may have been right... you left it out for a purpose you didnt state... exactly what I accused you of.
TSGt - If the all caps is due to disability, I apologize for any mocking I did. I'm sure you're aware that typing in all caps is considered yelling on the net (if you didnt know, you've been informed now). Your response, what appeared to be yelling in response to my comment, very much looked like an angry response. If that isnt the context, I misread. I do agree that folks dont get the same shake in life. Never said they did. Unfortunately, liberty (freedom) is fleeting and it feels as though our government is more intent on removing it than ensuring it. Justice, thats a sticky matter in and of itself. What some consider justice isnt what others consider justice. What I do believe is that we, as a nation, need to find a way to de-escalate the issues that we're facing while addressing them.. not escalate them as we have been seeing.
TSGt - If the all caps is due to disability, I apologize for any mocking I did. I'm sure you're aware that typing in all caps is considered yelling on the net (if you didnt know, you've been informed now). Your response, what appeared to be yelling in response to my comment, very much looked like an angry response. If that isnt the context, I misread. I do agree that folks dont get the same shake in life. Never said they did. Unfortunately, liberty (freedom) is fleeting and it feels as though our government is more intent on removing it than ensuring it. Justice, thats a sticky matter in and of itself. What some consider justice isnt what others consider justice. What I do believe is that we, as a nation, need to find a way to de-escalate the issues that we're facing while addressing them.. not escalate them as we have been seeing.
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MSG Frederick Otero
Who set up that rule that all caps equal yelling and since when does the net make the rules. Sorry this is not really the discussion but having the net telling me how i can use CAPs just does Not Cut IT. Again sorry and on to stuff that matters.
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Black and white privilege exist.. Also being said with supremacy.. I think this is dumb and not the right time or place for the nonsense
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SGT (Join to see)
Just here to converse, don't mean to offend you or upset you at all. Just want to see what others who served and is serving have to say.
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White privilege, seems like a theory to make whites resentful of the hard work or break they got on their way to success. Don’t believe for second that you cannot come to America and through work and dedication achieve a good life. Sadly most would like stuff handed to them, here you go. Here is a 60k a year job cause of what happen before both our grandmothers were born. Rubbish! Or well I did not get that job, must be the mean ole white/black/Hispanic/Asian/ man again. All excuses to make us feel better about our lack of talent, experience or education. Now do we get discriminated against? Absolutely we all do at some time. When this happens get a lawyer or accept it.
As for the racist crowd, yup there be monsters here on that one. But folks they pay a price for their views. Most are scorned by their family or friends and most do not have great jobs. But I find them to be the lowest form of human life for they fail to realize that we stronger together, and no one is as smart as all of us.
This question has brought many different views to the surface. These questions serve to spur debate and hopefully get as many different experiences as possible brought out so we can see what the other guy or gal has seen. Hell it might even change an opinion!
As for the racist crowd, yup there be monsters here on that one. But folks they pay a price for their views. Most are scorned by their family or friends and most do not have great jobs. But I find them to be the lowest form of human life for they fail to realize that we stronger together, and no one is as smart as all of us.
This question has brought many different views to the surface. These questions serve to spur debate and hopefully get as many different experiences as possible brought out so we can see what the other guy or gal has seen. Hell it might even change an opinion!
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SGT (Join to see)
I don't recall myself or anyone in this discussion labeling you sir and that is not my intent. We just agreed that there are bigots and racial individuals out there.
Now for the Chicago comment I can say the same thing about walking in Kansas by the West Borrow Church, or certain parts of Memphis where racism is alive and well. So idk where you were going with that comment. SN Greg Wright -
Now for the Chicago comment I can say the same thing about walking in Kansas by the West Borrow Church, or certain parts of Memphis where racism is alive and well. So idk where you were going with that comment. SN Greg Wright -
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SN Greg Wright
SGT (Join to see) - Firstly, Westborough Church is an extremist organization, as bad as any other religious zealots out there. The problem is that you associate whites with them (I think). They are a statistically zero representation of anyone outside their church. You're making my point with your comment about you walking around Memphis. Racism exists everywhere. EVERYWHERE. Not just in Black neighborhoods. That's my point. I would suffer it as much as you if I went outside my box. That is where I was going with my comment.
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SGT (Join to see)
You walking in a black neighborhood in Chicago and getting beaten up by black people isn't because racism. No one can walk in any neighborhood in south side and not have to worry about getting shot and getting jumped. You being white has nothing to do with it at all. I said Memphis bc it has everything to do with me being black. So no I'm sorry I didn't prove your point. Try again. SN Greg Wright -
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MSG Jay Jackson
How can you say it would not be racism? You cannot know the intent behind the action. Like wise I cannot say it was racism without proof. Also how come no one can go out and walk in the neighborhood without being shot or assaulted? Why do the police and the city allow this to continue? Could it be that the citizens are afraid or will not talk to the police, thus allowing this terror to continue?
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The simple truth is that any corporate effort reflects the larger civilian universe it came out of. You will always have racism, end of sentence. it is simply impossible to pass enough laws to correct or expunge? all human faults without first making a prison out of our country, let alone the uniformed services, and very unhappy places to live. I remember racism when I first came into the Navy and the Navy of today is absolutely day and night different than the Navy of my youth; it is a much better place. The only way it can get better is first within yourself; set the example. Live the example; inside of duty and orders only insofar as you must under UCMJ do your duty but do not associate with the racist otherwise outside, socially. Something I must remember here is that outside of G_d and his Son all men have the capacity to be racists to some degree or another; it is a facet of our faulted humanity and must be guarded against and fought against; absolutely none of us are Saint Paul and we're not Joseph Stalin either. We're just human beings trying to get through, even the racists. Show him/ them the best way; be the bet soldier you can possibly be; and that's not easy. Peace be in your House
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CPO William A. Bullard Jr.
This has nothing to do with the President elect, or the "last" tenant at 1600 Pennsylvania. Let us be perfectly clear on this point; and let me reiterate that it is simply humanly impossible to pass a law to take care of every situation because your attempt will turn the country into a prison. The question:"...is there white privilege..." presumes that the questioner is looking for their "own" privilege to check and balance for an answer; simply put all questions are propositions. Secondly is the person asking that question putting some particular stock in the importance of something that they cannot do anything about? You are born white; you are born black; those concurrent realities are things that we cannot do anything about and which is what we are individually. it would seem to this person writing here [Me!] that I would stop looking at something that I can't do anything about; passing a law will only aggrevate what is already a bad situation and while temporarily make things better for ME! will in the end make things worse for others and all of us in the end; so, just exactly what have I achieved dealing with something that I cannot do anything about? Deal with what is inside of yourself, find your strengths, grow them, reinforce them [take advantage of every service school in that direction] lead by "example" the best kind of leadership, also the toughest of all, but once achieved will be seen by ALL. Even the lowest meanest most junior rear ranker at the "Benning School for Boys" can be a leader by his example. Find your weaknesses and mitigate them with an eye towards removing them from your character and behavior. Concentrate only on what you can do something about and quit looking at others unnecessarily; there is always going to be pain and stop masking a personal failure to be the best you can be by muttering inanities about the pain of others as a hypocritical camouflage for your own personal failure. To the person/s who consider that "white privilege" is an important issue since they are putting stock in something they can't do anything about and the person who makes being black more important than in being a good American or a good Soldier, Sailor, Marine, Coast Guardsman, or Air-Man, GET OUT of My Armed Forces and get out of My country you really don't belong here. Go somewhere else in the world there are plenty of places that buy into that kind of horrible argument; they're all over the place and once you get past the color bar and go to Nigeria or Somalia or Syria, over there those folks don't care about your color they'll kill you if speak the wrong dialect, wear the wrong tribal color come from the wrong village, or are Sunday people [the Muslim word for Christians and they can smell a Christian before they see them; they'll tell you that and so will the Christians trying to survive]. That's what the end state is of arguments over "white privilege" or being Afro-American. I know I'm not saying what you want to hear; no one wants to hear the Truth; it's an ugly Beauty.
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Privilege exists.....but I don't necessarily see it tied to being "white." I see it tied to whomever is in the majority. In the US, that happens to be white folks. Got to Korea, privilege is now tied to being Korean. Privilege is the same, color of the skin is different.....
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MAJ (Join to see)
This is the most correct answer I've seen here. Privilege absolutely exists, but "white" privilege is a function of where you are. Second, having privilege doesn't mean you don't still get a shitty hand in life; it just means there are (on *average*) more opportunities for you than for those who lack that particular privilege because that's the structure of the society. Also, importantly, having privilege alone is no crime, but being mature requires at least some level of awareness of it. Finally, you can also define privilege on other factors than race, such as sex, sexual orientation, religion, etc...
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LTC Paul Labrador
MAJ (Join to see) - I would also add that privilege also comes from belonging to the demographic group in power. In Iraq, Sunnis were the minority, but they were also the ones in power, so being Sunni brought along privileges that being Shia did not.
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MAJ (Join to see)
LTC Paul Labrador: That's a very fair point, Sir. In fact, it's illustrative of the mindset of some political fringe groups here. Take, for example, the "alt-right", who very clearly saw that no matter how attached or not Donald Trump was to their specific views, having their wagon solidly hitched to his would give them an immense power advantage in society that their relatively small numbers and disturbingly nasty views wouldn't grant them otherwise.
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When it comes to the military, I don't believe in the existence of white privilege. I served with Hispanics, African Americans, Koreans and others. Some received higher performance ratings than I did, and some with same TIS and TIG were promoted before me. I didn't resent it. They had the same opportunities I was given and apparently did the most with it. I don't begrudge that. I worked harder and my time came. The military levels the playing field better than any institution I've ever been involved with. In the corporate world, things tend to be more subjective. We look to extend opportunity to qualified candidates. Sometimes it's easier than others but white applicants aren't "shoe-ins" for an open position or promotion. White Privilege is just another flavor of the month for the grievance industry, in my opinion.
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I recently served as a Battalion-Level EO NCO in the 310th MI Battalion here on Fort Meade.
I'm going to attempt to answer this based on MY own view of this situation.
According to Peggy McIntosh, whites in Western societies enjoy advantages that non-whites do not experience, as "an invisible package of unearned assets".[1] White privilege denotes both obvious and less obvious passive advantages that white people may not recognize they have, which distinguishes it from overt bias or prejudice. These include cultural affirmations of one's own worth; presumed greater social status; and freedom to move, buy, work, play, and speak freely. The effects can be seen in professional, educational, and personal contexts. The concept of white privilege also implies the right to assume the universality of one's own experiences, marking others as different or exceptional while perceiving oneself as normal.[2][3]
I found that paragraph on Wikipedia.
As a 33 year old white male - I have no fucking idea what she's talking about. I have been in the Army since 2002. I came from a small town in Southeast Texas where many of the people I graduated from High School with are struggling to make ends meet, have followed the local pattern of "get married, have kids, work dead-end jobs." Now - at no point in my life have I EVER been in any situation either in the military or on leave where I felt like I was getting better treatment that anyone of another race. At all.
I had to work to obtain what I have now. I'm nearly at the 15 year mark in federal service, all of which I experienced with the same standards, trials, and tribulations as those around me. I have suffered through my 20s with my own terrible financial management skills and have recently begun to turn that situation around, I have been busting my ass to get through my Bachelor's degree.
Sure, I haven't fallen victim to any direct racism or discrimination at all - at least not that I was aware of. I also grew up in a small-town environment where I was around mostly whites. Crime rates were low. We were low-middle class/poor.
But when someone comes to me and says, "White Privilege?"
Since we're being frank?
Are we talking about my "privilege" of actually working and doing something with my life so I can pay taxes to feed the burgeoning welfare system? Is that my "white privilege?"
I think this term and the theory behind it are another excuse that's being used by hordes of lazy people who are in shitty situations - sometimes of their own making - and instead of considering the possibility that 1) they may be there due to their own actions 2) they don't want to do the work to change their situation or 3) they feel that blaming others is better than accepting responsibility for their own choices - they've invented a whole new "phenomena" to complain about and redirect discussions away from the actual core issues they face.
So - no - I don't know what this "white privilege" is because I have yet to realize any benefits from it. Nor do I fundamentally think or agree that I should have any based solely on something as arbitrary as my skin color.
We each deserve that which we earn through our own merit, ability, and work.
Anyway - that's my opinion.
JCG
I'm going to attempt to answer this based on MY own view of this situation.
According to Peggy McIntosh, whites in Western societies enjoy advantages that non-whites do not experience, as "an invisible package of unearned assets".[1] White privilege denotes both obvious and less obvious passive advantages that white people may not recognize they have, which distinguishes it from overt bias or prejudice. These include cultural affirmations of one's own worth; presumed greater social status; and freedom to move, buy, work, play, and speak freely. The effects can be seen in professional, educational, and personal contexts. The concept of white privilege also implies the right to assume the universality of one's own experiences, marking others as different or exceptional while perceiving oneself as normal.[2][3]
I found that paragraph on Wikipedia.
As a 33 year old white male - I have no fucking idea what she's talking about. I have been in the Army since 2002. I came from a small town in Southeast Texas where many of the people I graduated from High School with are struggling to make ends meet, have followed the local pattern of "get married, have kids, work dead-end jobs." Now - at no point in my life have I EVER been in any situation either in the military or on leave where I felt like I was getting better treatment that anyone of another race. At all.
I had to work to obtain what I have now. I'm nearly at the 15 year mark in federal service, all of which I experienced with the same standards, trials, and tribulations as those around me. I have suffered through my 20s with my own terrible financial management skills and have recently begun to turn that situation around, I have been busting my ass to get through my Bachelor's degree.
Sure, I haven't fallen victim to any direct racism or discrimination at all - at least not that I was aware of. I also grew up in a small-town environment where I was around mostly whites. Crime rates were low. We were low-middle class/poor.
But when someone comes to me and says, "White Privilege?"
Since we're being frank?
Are we talking about my "privilege" of actually working and doing something with my life so I can pay taxes to feed the burgeoning welfare system? Is that my "white privilege?"
I think this term and the theory behind it are another excuse that's being used by hordes of lazy people who are in shitty situations - sometimes of their own making - and instead of considering the possibility that 1) they may be there due to their own actions 2) they don't want to do the work to change their situation or 3) they feel that blaming others is better than accepting responsibility for their own choices - they've invented a whole new "phenomena" to complain about and redirect discussions away from the actual core issues they face.
So - no - I don't know what this "white privilege" is because I have yet to realize any benefits from it. Nor do I fundamentally think or agree that I should have any based solely on something as arbitrary as my skin color.
We each deserve that which we earn through our own merit, ability, and work.
Anyway - that's my opinion.
JCG
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Yes to the first....duh to the second. All you have to do is go to the FBI website and look up the domestic terrorist groups. Half are white supremacists. Kind of rhetorical that second part.
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Yes, and I believe race is one of the many types of privilege we encounter. Having said that, I believe people will always be resistant to accepting it because acceptance calls into question one of our most cherished beliefs, that we are self made.
I have a reasonable understanding of this line of thinking because I too used to think this way. I joined the Army when I was 17, got an Associates, then a Bachelors and finally an MBA all while working full time. I have started two small businesses and been reasonably financially successful. It makes me feel great about myself to think of all the success I have received is all from my earlier sacrifices. I, like many other successful people, worked hard. It's a great story.
But here's the rub. I grew up in a middle class suburb with a good school system, parents who were supportive of education, in a wealthy country with lots of opportunity and "crime" happened when we threw rotten apples at the neighbors house before Halloween. That's just the financial advantages. When I was younger I got a couple of speeding tickets and never once did it enter my mind that those stops would end any other way than me driving off mad at myself for getting it.
As soon as we acknowledge something like white privilege or any outside advantage, it by necessity calls into question the idea that we are completely self made. Sure we impacted our destiny but now we have to acknowledge some of what got us to where we are today was due to factors entirely not in our control, things we didn't do but were handed to us. We suddenly are not so great, not so comparatively successful, if we find out we were given a huge head start in a race. For many, the idea of white privilege is a direct attack on who they see themselves to be, so there will always be strong opposition to the idea.
But yes, there appear to be very real advantages to looking the way I look.
I have a reasonable understanding of this line of thinking because I too used to think this way. I joined the Army when I was 17, got an Associates, then a Bachelors and finally an MBA all while working full time. I have started two small businesses and been reasonably financially successful. It makes me feel great about myself to think of all the success I have received is all from my earlier sacrifices. I, like many other successful people, worked hard. It's a great story.
But here's the rub. I grew up in a middle class suburb with a good school system, parents who were supportive of education, in a wealthy country with lots of opportunity and "crime" happened when we threw rotten apples at the neighbors house before Halloween. That's just the financial advantages. When I was younger I got a couple of speeding tickets and never once did it enter my mind that those stops would end any other way than me driving off mad at myself for getting it.
As soon as we acknowledge something like white privilege or any outside advantage, it by necessity calls into question the idea that we are completely self made. Sure we impacted our destiny but now we have to acknowledge some of what got us to where we are today was due to factors entirely not in our control, things we didn't do but were handed to us. We suddenly are not so great, not so comparatively successful, if we find out we were given a huge head start in a race. For many, the idea of white privilege is a direct attack on who they see themselves to be, so there will always be strong opposition to the idea.
But yes, there appear to be very real advantages to looking the way I look.
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