Posted on Apr 6, 2015
Does White Privilege really exist in our military? "Army says diversity training sent wrong signal... "
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What are your thoughts on this topic, this training, this manual?
I, personally, believe we have come a long way in the America and in our Army, but I also know (A) we are not there yet, and (B) I know that I see the world through my eyes and life experiences.
1. As you know (or may not know) the concept of "white privilege" appeared in the Defense Equal Opportunity Management Institute (DEOMI) training manual in 2013. DOD officials quickly said it was a mistake, and it that this was not caught in the fielding of the policy manual... That makes sense, as many don't actually read things they approve. That led me/us to believe there was a change in the works.
2. Now, it appears this concept, which was supposed to be removed the DOD training manual/POI, was not, and DEOMI is still pushing this message. Now, it appears we have an EO Officer or NCO teaching this to Soldiers...
Interesting to say the least.
These are some related articles.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/03/army-diversity-training/25250733/
http://toprightnews.com/army-soldiers-forced-to-sit-through-white-privilege-presentation-and-the-backlash-is-just-beginning/
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/31/pentagon-training-manual-white-males-have-unfair-advantages/
I, personally, believe we have come a long way in the America and in our Army, but I also know (A) we are not there yet, and (B) I know that I see the world through my eyes and life experiences.
1. As you know (or may not know) the concept of "white privilege" appeared in the Defense Equal Opportunity Management Institute (DEOMI) training manual in 2013. DOD officials quickly said it was a mistake, and it that this was not caught in the fielding of the policy manual... That makes sense, as many don't actually read things they approve. That led me/us to believe there was a change in the works.
2. Now, it appears this concept, which was supposed to be removed the DOD training manual/POI, was not, and DEOMI is still pushing this message. Now, it appears we have an EO Officer or NCO teaching this to Soldiers...
Interesting to say the least.
These are some related articles.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/03/army-diversity-training/25250733/
http://toprightnews.com/army-soldiers-forced-to-sit-through-white-privilege-presentation-and-the-backlash-is-just-beginning/
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/31/pentagon-training-manual-white-males-have-unfair-advantages/
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 64
I didn't see race being a factor in promotions or anything else while I was in. As a white female I often found myself the only white person or one of few in many situations. My units, I would say, were fairly diversified, my direct superiors were been black, brown, brown, black, white, white, brown. In that order and that is actually the first time I thought about their race in relation to anything. Sure there were days when I wasn't their number one fan, but I liked each one and never felt treated unfairly. I can only recall two people crying unfair treatment due to race while I was in. One was a student, we were debating speed limits of all things, we didn't agree. She said it was never ok for anyone to break a speed limit, I permitted emergencies and going with the flow of traffic (ie the NJ Turnpike). Later she told my co-workers that I was racist, they just laughed and shook their heads, most of whom were black or brown, how she jumped from our speed discussion to race is beyond me. The other time was when a peer kept getting pulled over by the SFs on base for speeding, he complained that it was because he was black. As noted my NCO was black, as was the NCO over her, we also had a black OIC, they didn't have a problem with the SF. Anyways, the Senior NCO told him to knock it off, that race was not an issue and to start acting responsibly and stop driving like an idiot. Normally this would be said behind closed doors, but my peer was very vocal about the injustices he suffered because he was a black Muslim - in 2000. The only -ism that I saw that garnered huge disdain was Imtoogoodtodothatism.
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CPT (Join to see)
Isn't it amazing how one person to have such an impact on the whole Army. Now they are going to retrain all the EO reps out there because of this.
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CSM (Join to see)
This will be the second stand down and retraining in less than a year. WTF are they doing out there at DEOMI? I am guessing golf?
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COL Charles Williams
They are teaching the EO Reps... White guys (like me) are the source of all evil.
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The issue with "white privilege" is that the term can be twisted so much that there is no way to study it objectively.
What we can do is provide demographic information on promotions (USMC does for SSgt+), and see if they are out of line with the service structure. Based on representation of the Force, we can determine if there is an over or under-representation at higher ranks.
But back to the manual/regulation. Can you regulate "subjective"? ("It's not what he said, it's how he said it!") Using the term "white privilege" in an official document, is like using "rape culture" in Sexual Harassment training. It's just not appropriate.
What we can do is provide demographic information on promotions (USMC does for SSgt+), and see if they are out of line with the service structure. Based on representation of the Force, we can determine if there is an over or under-representation at higher ranks.
But back to the manual/regulation. Can you regulate "subjective"? ("It's not what he said, it's how he said it!") Using the term "white privilege" in an official document, is like using "rape culture" in Sexual Harassment training. It's just not appropriate.
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MSgt (Join to see)
I don't know if using raw numbers as you describe would suffice. We would also have to include EPRs and if the member has received any LOCs, LORs or other form of punishment. If you just look to see of there is a certain percentage of race in each grade you may or may not get the result you wanted.
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We are becoming a country that does not recognize Male or Female, but yet we recognize race? Why? When will we accept that someone can be a different race if they feel that way. Why is it acceptable that a man can be a female or a female a man, but a black person can't be white and a white person can't be black. We are all mostly so mixed in blood lines that we have no direct race. It is silliness to the 5th degree.
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yeah I don't know what that crap was all about... The military was promoting racial integration and equality way before it was cool. With the exception of gay rights, it seems to me the military has always been way out front of the rest of our society when it comes to equality.
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When I first heard about this I was taken by surprise. Never had I heard anything remotely like this in my time in the Army. If anything the biggest complaint I've encountered is that the privilege is given to those who are not "white". I've known NCO's who have changed their race on their ERB to "mixed" just to get a leg up on promotion. I'm not necessarily agreeing that there is any sort of trend that gives preference to any race, but I think that this argument is unfounded in most formations.
We have come a very long way as an organization. I've had the honor and privilege to serve under and over people of many different nationalities. Although I have felt discriminated against by a certain superior at one point in time due to our differing races, I believe my overall performance and dedication to my job overcame any prejudice he might have had.
I always tell my soldiers that there is only one color in the Army. And that is green. Although we are all unique in our heritages and backgrounds, we all bleed the same color and we serve under the same flag. When we put on this uniform we are all equals.
This seems to be another case of NCO's not doing their jobs of maintaining the standard. We need to be speak up and remind Soldiers that there is absolutely no privilege given to anyone in the service based on race, religion, creed, gender, or sexual preference. We should be judging our subordinates, peers, and superiors based on actions and performance. Most importantly we need to hold ourselves accountable.
I'm sure the civilian sector will be dealing with this nasty issue for a long time to come, so we need to continue to be the standard bearers and elevate ourselves above this and put this to rest once and for all.
We have come a very long way as an organization. I've had the honor and privilege to serve under and over people of many different nationalities. Although I have felt discriminated against by a certain superior at one point in time due to our differing races, I believe my overall performance and dedication to my job overcame any prejudice he might have had.
I always tell my soldiers that there is only one color in the Army. And that is green. Although we are all unique in our heritages and backgrounds, we all bleed the same color and we serve under the same flag. When we put on this uniform we are all equals.
This seems to be another case of NCO's not doing their jobs of maintaining the standard. We need to be speak up and remind Soldiers that there is absolutely no privilege given to anyone in the service based on race, religion, creed, gender, or sexual preference. We should be judging our subordinates, peers, and superiors based on actions and performance. Most importantly we need to hold ourselves accountable.
I'm sure the civilian sector will be dealing with this nasty issue for a long time to come, so we need to continue to be the standard bearers and elevate ourselves above this and put this to rest once and for all.
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COL Charles Williams
Hooah... Thanks!!! Unfortunately what you witnessed happens, and we can't complain about. It...
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It is the most convenient explanation for the failure of Lyndon B. Johnson's Great Society Programs.
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I'm a very confused little man. I would have immense pride in my culture and ethnicity, if I had any. But alas, mom was adopted and has no knowledge of her birth parents. Pop had his name changed to nana's new husband's name (Merino). If we stick to tradition and claim dad's last name, my name is really Mark Kinney. Where does my dark skin come from? I've been a pain in the butt since then because I feel like I can choose whatever I want. I would bring this little issue up all the time in my EO training and sometimes it got really sporty! "You are Spanish." "Oh hell no, he's white." "Are you Irish?" I just wanted either an "other" box or "God's child." Talk about being a minority. I'm in a very special group.....adopted and clueless.
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COL Charles Williams
How come... administrator SFC Mark Merino do I only get 75 thumbs up a day... I need more...
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Sgt (Join to see)
White Privilege is a MYTH created by the same people who terrorized Blacks during and after the Civil War. These people are hypocrites who seek division. White Privilege? You come to the south where we worked on the farm or in factories alongside black folks and no one was treated any better or worse. My "White Privilege" was to get up early and work in the hot sun all day!
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I saw this on Army WTF Moments on Facebook. I was horrified when I say this. I wish I would have been there. I am surprised that no one tried to stop it. I am sure they thought this was some what they thought was supposed to be there.
I straddle the race barrier. I am white. My heritage is European but as you can imagine with a last name like Rosa I am cast as being Hispanic. Not there is anything wrong with that but I am proud of my heritage. But what kills me is when I inform people they still don't think I am white. That is fine. I have not reason to care really but what bothers me is that how they perceive how whites act and how I don't fit into that. This is madness. This is what some want others to think. That they didn't fail on their own or how they think Whites are automatically successful in life. I had to work for everything I had. It isn't my fault I am successful. No one is going to hand you success. You have to get that on your own.
I straddle the race barrier. I am white. My heritage is European but as you can imagine with a last name like Rosa I am cast as being Hispanic. Not there is anything wrong with that but I am proud of my heritage. But what kills me is when I inform people they still don't think I am white. That is fine. I have not reason to care really but what bothers me is that how they perceive how whites act and how I don't fit into that. This is madness. This is what some want others to think. That they didn't fail on their own or how they think Whites are automatically successful in life. I had to work for everything I had. It isn't my fault I am successful. No one is going to hand you success. You have to get that on your own.
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SGT (Join to see)
1LT Rosa
I understand the perception people get from a name . Race if we divide every one with race we just went back 70 years or so . Who today thinks they could handle that really ? It is said we are a more evolved in this day and age . But with this kind of action it shows we have gone no where but back wards. I agree with COL Williams . It takes Back bone to put a stop to this ! In my day we had Race Relation Training , some time it seemed like it was every week back in the early and mid 70's it made a difference . The leaders today need to take command and lead by example with this !
I understand the perception people get from a name . Race if we divide every one with race we just went back 70 years or so . Who today thinks they could handle that really ? It is said we are a more evolved in this day and age . But with this kind of action it shows we have gone no where but back wards. I agree with COL Williams . It takes Back bone to put a stop to this ! In my day we had Race Relation Training , some time it seemed like it was every week back in the early and mid 70's it made a difference . The leaders today need to take command and lead by example with this !
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CPT (Join to see)
CSM (Join to see) I will blame their lack of attendance on rankism. They felt like they were too good or already knew something that was being briefed. Either that or they didn't care or want to waste time. At the end of the day if no leadership were in the room they used their Rank to get out of it. I bet they were in there now.
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CSM (Join to see)
You are probably right, maybe there is something to your rankism. With that said, I will still call it a lack of leadership. I have sat through so many EO, SHARP, etc classes that I am pretty well versed in all Army programs however, my ass was sitting in every one of my company's as a 1SG, and battalion level leaders as a CSM. My platoon sergeants were there and when I was a CSM my 1SGs were there...it's that easy. As a senior NCO if you allow your commander to get dinged for something that he/she is responsible for but you and your NCOs manage, you should be relieved on the spot.
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CPT (Join to see)
CSM (Join to see) One of my heros, CSM Purdy, would say that if you are a Squad leader you are the chief trainer of your squad, a PSG the chief trainer of his platoon, 1SG the same. The CSM is the Chief Trainer if his Battalion. That doesn't mean that he is in charge of the training or that he is in charge of it but his role is to be there. I think you already know this but as you may see this is happening less and less. This Rankism is something that is there. Just like in Fort Hood were a CPT was killed by being backed out by a MATV. An officer was backing up the MATV and didn't have a ground guide. He felt comfortable enough where he didn't need one. That was because of his rank. It is sad when you see leadership failures like this.
Going back to the EO class. There is why we have rehearsals and back briefs. I have a feeling that that didn't happen.
Going back to the EO class. There is why we have rehearsals and back briefs. I have a feeling that that didn't happen.
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As long as there are DA photos there will be all the 'isms you can imagine. I believe that sexism and racism are still major issues and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I have yet to understand why people can't just agree that we all bleed red and all wear the uniform of the greatest Military in the world and just set everything else aside.
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