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Probably wasn't too kosher in my day and I'm sure it is less so now but I guess something's never change. Alcohol Abuse at its finest although I am not one to talk. Pretty sure I never had a sober day in Adak or Diego Garcia.
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Here is a question to ponder now that this has come to light. Ft. Lee has a plethora of young soldiers that are social media nuts and have undoubtedly seen this and assumed it is proper. Now they decide they want to stop by the local bar on post in uniform and do the same. What do you think some senior NCO is going to do?
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I just don't see an issue here. In fact I like it when leaders of all ranks can meet and come together in a relaxed atmosphere.
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SGT Robert Wager
I agree, nothing to see here... Are they adults? They are having a few drinks at an on post establishment that serves alcohol. When did my Army get so touchy feely that a soldier cannot legally have a drink at the post club without it becoming a national social media outrage?
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It's a bad idea. It sends the wrong image of the unit and if something happens it makes it easier to figure out who was involved. If I'm going to drink I'm going to have a good time and don't want to wear any type of identifying work related clothes. Might just be the Marine is used to our utilities (our name for what you guys refer to as ACUs) is for work and not liberty.
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Posting the picture in yet another social media outlet? Good idea? probably not.
The problem I see with this type of thing is that it has been going on for years (I know that doesn't make it right) and has become a tradition of sorts. With social media, and almost every person on earth having a camera at their immediate disposal by means of cell phones, and the ability to upload to the internet for the whole world to see in seconds, is what makes it unbearable.
The older NCOs on here know good and well, this use to happen all the time on on-post facilities (which this was) in order to bring leaders together and build camaraderie and esprit de corps. At least in the combat arms arena it did.
The problem I see with this type of thing is that it has been going on for years (I know that doesn't make it right) and has become a tradition of sorts. With social media, and almost every person on earth having a camera at their immediate disposal by means of cell phones, and the ability to upload to the internet for the whole world to see in seconds, is what makes it unbearable.
The older NCOs on here know good and well, this use to happen all the time on on-post facilities (which this was) in order to bring leaders together and build camaraderie and esprit de corps. At least in the combat arms arena it did.
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1SG (Join to see)
It's not about being everywhere SGM, it's about not jumping to conclusions about what was going on, because as you said, "we all can't be everywhere". Without being there people jump to conclusions that they were downing shots. Like I said maybe they took one (1) shot, and just someone snapped a picture of it.
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1SG James Wise
SFC (P) Richard Gilley,
The perception when you see someone downing a shot with all smiles and laughter is they are there to drink...period. If everyone had a sober face I wouldn't even blink and would perceive toasting to fallen comrades or something equally serious. This picture shows a party starting or shifting into a higher gear...perception yes but perception is the reality until there is another explanation.
The perception when you see someone downing a shot with all smiles and laughter is they are there to drink...period. If everyone had a sober face I wouldn't even blink and would perceive toasting to fallen comrades or something equally serious. This picture shows a party starting or shifting into a higher gear...perception yes but perception is the reality until there is another explanation.
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1SG (Join to see)
MSG, I can appreciate where you are coming from but the only person in this picture laughing that I can see is the only one not drinking (in the picture).
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This was on Fort Lee. Here is the Fort Lee Policy Letter on alcohol.
http://www.lee.army.mil/documents/policy/FL%20Policy%2004-05%20Alcoholic%20Beverages%20Policy.pdf
I leave it to you to decide. For reference, the establishment is on post. Personally, I know it looks bad, but after reading the 670-1's and the policy letter, for me there's nothing specific to point at and say "you violated that".
It looks bad, but..
http://www.lee.army.mil/documents/policy/FL%20Policy%2004-05%20Alcoholic%20Beverages%20Policy.pdf
I leave it to you to decide. For reference, the establishment is on post. Personally, I know it looks bad, but after reading the 670-1's and the policy letter, for me there's nothing specific to point at and say "you violated that".
It looks bad, but..
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SFC Michael Hasbun
I would love to agree, but unfortunately those are commas, not periods. The sentence starts off with "If the off-post", which limits the scope to off post. This was an on post establishment.
Admittedly, I wouldn't have done this, if for no other reason than image and perception. But every prohibition starts off with the phrase "off post".
Admittedly, I wouldn't have done this, if for no other reason than image and perception. But every prohibition starts off with the phrase "off post".
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Here's the thing.... ten years ago this picture would probably never had been taken, and certainly would not have ever ended up on the internet making fast rounds on the social media sites. Ten years ago, most people didn't have cell phones with cameras, many people didn't own a digital camera, and no one had even heard of Facebook. That wouldn't have made this situation acceptable, but let's admit, drinking has always been something that happens in the military (both in and out of uniform - and at all levels).
The lesson that seems to be constantly not learned is that no one is safe from observation in today's world. At some point you are going to be photographed without your knowledge, and at some point that photo is going to make it onto someone's social media site. If the behavior that is captured is something that people can pick apart you better believe that people will come after you like a hungry pack of wolves.
I just don't understand how individuals such as these (from the picture here it looks like they are all Sergeants Major - or at least Master Sergeants), can ever again dish out constant advice on Soldier's behaving appropriately and the dangers of social media now that they have been bit by the Facebook monster. A total loss of credibility has occurred, and as a result a potential for a loss of discipline.
The lesson that seems to be constantly not learned is that no one is safe from observation in today's world. At some point you are going to be photographed without your knowledge, and at some point that photo is going to make it onto someone's social media site. If the behavior that is captured is something that people can pick apart you better believe that people will come after you like a hungry pack of wolves.
I just don't understand how individuals such as these (from the picture here it looks like they are all Sergeants Major - or at least Master Sergeants), can ever again dish out constant advice on Soldier's behaving appropriately and the dangers of social media now that they have been bit by the Facebook monster. A total loss of credibility has occurred, and as a result a potential for a loss of discipline.
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This is an easy fix. All NCO Calls, O Calls the uniform is Civilian. I won't sit here on my soap box and say I never went to a Engineer Call or NCO Call and didn't have a beer. Back to the question, No drinking in uniform is not a good idea, to many eyes looking around. Social media will twist and turn it all around as this proves. My question is, didn't Facebook say this photo was taken off post? Why was this NCO Call happening off post? Situational awareness.
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SFC (Join to see)
SGM Quick,
I completely understand what you are saying, social media is a powerful thing and taken out of context this could be seen as negative. However back when you first were in the Marines, or crossed over to the Army, would anyone have even thought twice about this? No regulations were broken and I am sure these Senior Leaders were doing the right thing and had a DD. As for Soldiers doing what leaders do, I would much rather have them getting drunk on post at the NCO club then making a fool of themselves out on the town. I think one of the things that is bringing down our profession of arms these days is that we are becoming too PC and much to worried about being politically correct.
I completely understand what you are saying, social media is a powerful thing and taken out of context this could be seen as negative. However back when you first were in the Marines, or crossed over to the Army, would anyone have even thought twice about this? No regulations were broken and I am sure these Senior Leaders were doing the right thing and had a DD. As for Soldiers doing what leaders do, I would much rather have them getting drunk on post at the NCO club then making a fool of themselves out on the town. I think one of the things that is bringing down our profession of arms these days is that we are becoming too PC and much to worried about being politically correct.
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SGM Matthew Quick
SSG Anderson,
I appreciate your positive attitude and hopefully the entire picture is taken out of context, but again, it's perception (I didn't understand/appreciate that word until a few years ago)
Not being a big drinker myself (I don't judge, though), I'm sure this was acceptable 20 years ago when I was a young Marine...so was blood rank and many other hazing activities; times have changed and we're expected to be a more professional military.
I enjoy a beer at dinner and even a couple at an airport before/between flights, BUT, I don't drink in uniform...maybe it's a personal pride thing or maybe I am committed to the Army's profession; either way, it's a choice.
I appreciate your positive attitude and hopefully the entire picture is taken out of context, but again, it's perception (I didn't understand/appreciate that word until a few years ago)
Not being a big drinker myself (I don't judge, though), I'm sure this was acceptable 20 years ago when I was a young Marine...so was blood rank and many other hazing activities; times have changed and we're expected to be a more professional military.
I enjoy a beer at dinner and even a couple at an airport before/between flights, BUT, I don't drink in uniform...maybe it's a personal pride thing or maybe I am committed to the Army's profession; either way, it's a choice.
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SFC (Join to see)
MSG Carl Cunningham,
I'm not trying to argue for the sake of arguments sake, but with all due respect; aren't you reading into the regulation just a little bit? The reg only addresses drinking off post, unless there is a local policy prohibiting drinking in uniform ON POST then no rules were broken. Where does it say anything about only being able to drink in dress uniform while on post?
I'm not trying to argue for the sake of arguments sake, but with all due respect; aren't you reading into the regulation just a little bit? The reg only addresses drinking off post, unless there is a local policy prohibiting drinking in uniform ON POST then no rules were broken. Where does it say anything about only being able to drink in dress uniform while on post?
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SFC (Join to see)
SGM Quick,
I am an eternally positive person! :) My big point with everything I am saying is, if no rules were broken then no harm no foul.
I may be going a bit off topic here, but when I got my ABN wings, they were blood wings, when I got my German Jump wings they were blood wings from a 6 foot huge German SGM, every rank up to SSG was blood rank. When I got it, I didn't feel like I was being hazed, I was proud that I was following a tradition that Paratroopers have upheld since the birth of the Airborne. When I got to the 82nd my brother and I were smoked for 6 hours straight because we were cherries! I took it all in stride, and if anything it made me a stronger person. Once again, I can't help but think that Political correctness is taking away from our traditions in the military, we are becoming more and more like the Airforce (Corporate Military) every day, and I don't really think it is a good thing.
That being said, I do understand that the “perception” of this photo could be negative to the public if posted on social media, however that does not make it wrong.
And since when did having a shot make you a "binge drinker"?
I am an eternally positive person! :) My big point with everything I am saying is, if no rules were broken then no harm no foul.
I may be going a bit off topic here, but when I got my ABN wings, they were blood wings, when I got my German Jump wings they were blood wings from a 6 foot huge German SGM, every rank up to SSG was blood rank. When I got it, I didn't feel like I was being hazed, I was proud that I was following a tradition that Paratroopers have upheld since the birth of the Airborne. When I got to the 82nd my brother and I were smoked for 6 hours straight because we were cherries! I took it all in stride, and if anything it made me a stronger person. Once again, I can't help but think that Political correctness is taking away from our traditions in the military, we are becoming more and more like the Airforce (Corporate Military) every day, and I don't really think it is a good thing.
That being said, I do understand that the “perception” of this photo could be negative to the public if posted on social media, however that does not make it wrong.
And since when did having a shot make you a "binge drinker"?
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