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Alcohol
Policy
Uniforms
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While there is no direct regulation that says you cannot imbibe alcohol while in uniform, most post policies will have something along the lines of "you may drink an alcoholic beverage in on post establishments while in uniform, but only a few. Drinking in uniform in off-post establishments is not allowed."
I actually had this discussion with my unit a while ago. I know the I Corp policy on JBLM says the above. I actually talked to a Sergeant, 2 Staff Sergeants and a Sergeant First Class (two of the four were former Drill Sergeants) at the Buffalo Wild Wings in Tacoma who were drinking in uniform. I told them they were wrong, told them were to find it in the I Corp Policy book, and they pretty much told me to fornicate myself. I got their names and emailed their CSM, but I don't know what came of it.
Personally, I think the pride that is supposed to be coupled with the uniform should say absolutely not. What I do is keep a set of civilian clothes in my car at all times, just in case somebody says "Hey, let's go get a drink." This way, I can change and do what I need to do.
I actually had this discussion with my unit a while ago. I know the I Corp policy on JBLM says the above. I actually talked to a Sergeant, 2 Staff Sergeants and a Sergeant First Class (two of the four were former Drill Sergeants) at the Buffalo Wild Wings in Tacoma who were drinking in uniform. I told them they were wrong, told them were to find it in the I Corp Policy book, and they pretty much told me to fornicate myself. I got their names and emailed their CSM, but I don't know what came of it.
Personally, I think the pride that is supposed to be coupled with the uniform should say absolutely not. What I do is keep a set of civilian clothes in my car at all times, just in case somebody says "Hey, let's go get a drink." This way, I can change and do what I need to do.
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There will not be any posted photos of me drinking in uniform because I didn't ever do it. I just never thought it looked right. Even as a child watching "war movies" where soldiers were consuming alcohol I never thought it was a dignified look.
Sometimes leadership starts with you...
Sometimes leadership starts with you...
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CSM (Join to see)
Having a beer or two is one thing, but going out to the bar in your uniform is never, ever a good idea. It is, in fact, against regulations to be in any establishment, in uniform, that primarily serves alcohol. It is unprofessional, disrespectful to the service, and sends a poor message to the public.
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PO2 Jonathan Scharff
CSM (Join to see) I agree. I was describing my personal feelings not Army regs. For me drinking and the uniform never went together. Just as I wouldn't look to kindly on a local police officer in uniform drinking at the local bar even if he was "off duty". Just my personal view.
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CSM (Join to see)
I complete agree with you on the personal side of things. I just wanted to throw the reg out there also. You'd be surprised at how many don't know there is a regulation.
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Used to be in AR 360-5 (public info) we were not to take nor allow publication of such photos (original theory was they were used in Soviet propaganda, and of course the idea of setting a proper example).
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I would say absolutely NOT. We set the example for those around us and for what the perception is of the armed forces service members and this certainly is not an example I would want to ever set or my Soldiers.
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Soldiers are their own worst enemies. This photo, along with many others showing NCO's doing inappropriate things, usually originate from the facebook page "U.S. Army WTF Moments". Its pretty much run by lower enlisted soldiers, who take these candid photo's and upload them online. For all to see. There are actually a couple more photos from this event, and one of these is actually an SGM.
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Terrible Idea. Perception is the reality, especially in the Army. If I want a beer or scotch I will be in civs or in my own house.
Military social functions it is fine, I will drink socially likely 1 per hour but not can't do the binge drinking anymore.. Bad for ones image, bad for hangovers. College days have faded it would seem.
Military social functions it is fine, I will drink socially likely 1 per hour but not can't do the binge drinking anymore.. Bad for ones image, bad for hangovers. College days have faded it would seem.
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Not ok unless it's a military function. St Barbra's day ball. Army ball ect. Defenatly not in acus. Now you can't get all the senior leaders together at a bar and call it a military function. It looks unprofessional if I was a civ. if you want to drink in uniform. Do it at the house.
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I think it's very unprofessional. I'm ex Navy and when I was active we were not allowed to be seen in any establishment in our uniform unless it was our dress uniform. I work on an Army instalation and with this new military I see the out shopping in malls, eating in restaurants, drinking at the bar in some restaurants and sometimes they are in partial uniform. In today's society and being at war with terrorism they are now exposing themselves and innocent bystanders. Not only that the Army does not teach respect, responsibility or have any kind of discipline anymore. Like someone else said the lower enlisted are going to do what the leadership does because now they think it's okay.
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SFC William Trent
To say that soldier have no respect,responsibility and discipline is just not true. And to keep saying the lower enlisted are watching and well think it's the right thing to do. Good I hope they do cause there nothing wrong with it. And while there doing what sr nco are doing hope they get a 300 on there PT TEST. Get to work early stay late ANC work through lunch. If they do with leaders do a Lott less UCMJ and trips to the MP STATION
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SN Kenneth Melton
All I was trying to say is back in the day you were taught to respect the uniform. you were also told that while out in the civilian world you are representing the United States Military and should do so in a professional manner.
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Should not happen. I retired in 2005 and to this day when I see this happening I go and inform them of the regulations. Most of the time they are Senior NCOs or Officers. Most of the time I am met with hostility, mind your own business, regulations have changed and other vulgar responses I shouldn't put in print. I let them know I'll be calling their COC in the morning. I think it is unprofessional.
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SFC (Join to see)
Kind of off subject because 1SG Carey mentiond mostly senior NCO's but I was in Auto Zone a few days ago and there was a Soldier walking around in without his blouse so I approached him and informed him he needed to go put on his blouse if he was going to be inside the store... Well lets just say this conversation did not go to well when he started ranting and raving about him being a SFC and knows the standard. I Don't want to go into the whole thing but I always wondered when I saw Soldiers making poor choices well this example of a SFC is why
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1SG Russell Carey
Let me clarify, I am speaking of these occasions at Outback Steakhouse, Applebees and Chili's. I think it is one thing to buy a drink for your right hand at an MWR event such as Right Arm Night, but not to be downtown in uniform bringing unwanted attention. and as SFC Stacy mentions, I too correct uniform violations, it's in the blood, hard to stop.
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I know what 670-1 says but there is also:
AR 215-1 Chapter 10. MWR events, Military Balls, Right arm night, certain area's in the CJOA "not CJOA-A" sometimes it is authorized and sometimes there are instillations that have a policy in regards to Alcohol consumption, adding to the reg, which Commanders can do. I do know what the regulation says in regards to it, but it seems like it is Commanders discretion. One reg says something and anoter says something to the contrary. For example, AR 215-1 Chapter 10 says that Alcohol can be purchased for MWR functions, those are MWR funds; however, JFTR says that purchasing Alcohol using government funds is a complete no no. If it was a complete prohibition the regulation will state it clearly "you cannot do this,"and "you cannot do that," but for Alcohol that is not the case, and thats why I assume that it is left at Commanders discretion.
AR 215-1 Chapter 10. MWR events, Military Balls, Right arm night, certain area's in the CJOA "not CJOA-A" sometimes it is authorized and sometimes there are instillations that have a policy in regards to Alcohol consumption, adding to the reg, which Commanders can do. I do know what the regulation says in regards to it, but it seems like it is Commanders discretion. One reg says something and anoter says something to the contrary. For example, AR 215-1 Chapter 10 says that Alcohol can be purchased for MWR functions, those are MWR funds; however, JFTR says that purchasing Alcohol using government funds is a complete no no. If it was a complete prohibition the regulation will state it clearly "you cannot do this,"and "you cannot do that," but for Alcohol that is not the case, and thats why I assume that it is left at Commanders discretion.
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I have never supported drinking of any kind in uniform, it brings bad attention to the service. I rank this up to the embarrassment of military installations "Harlem Shake". Not good on any level and no room for a professional service.
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Taking shots in uniform is a disgrace to said uniform. I'm not against drinking in uniform 100%, I believe provided its well regulated and the person is not getting drunk or drinking for bad reasons then it can be "ok" of course its always better to drink without being in uniform
Taking shots while in uniform on the other hand not only crosses the line, it laps it.
Taking shots while in uniform on the other hand not only crosses the line, it laps it.
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I would like to add this to discussion. I think it's wrong of us to post any picture and have discussion like we are having about them without them knowing about it !!! I'm not saying her there permission but at least be advised. I think we could have the discussion without using their picture
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Seeing how 670-1 only covers "off-post" locations and drinking in uniform, it comes down to Post Command/Unit Command Policies, if none exist then it should be fine for anyone to drink in uniform while "on-post". Although I may not have the favored opinion on this topic, these leaders are not in the wrong if no Policy is in place. Everything else is a matter of personal opinion and has no bearing.
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SGM Matthew Quick
Personal opinion, by the American public, has bearing...images like these, either within interpreted regulatory guidance or not, could portray the Army in a poor light.
Currently, the US military is very respected by the majority of the American public...these types of images can cast a large shadow for some time.
Why do I care what the American public think/feel about us? We work for them and we need their support...especially when it comes to voting.
Currently, the US military is very respected by the majority of the American public...these types of images can cast a large shadow for some time.
Why do I care what the American public think/feel about us? We work for them and we need their support...especially when it comes to voting.
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SPC Christopher Smith
SGM Quick,
I can tell you that the American public at large does not care about this picture. The loud groups and organizations that get upset represent a very small percentage of the American population. Going to BWW's to pick up wings for dinner I've been offered a shot, I turned it down because who knows who is watching, but the majority of the public somewhat understands the stress we are under.
If we cannot show the public that we are able to have a good time, and that we ARE people as well, how do we gain their support? Running around like perfect robots that live in our own bubble away from everyone and hiding any type of enjoyment does not foster a great public image. Look at what the Military issues out for PR about us having fun; running events, jumping out of planes, combatives, anything about our jobs and being physically fit, but rarely anything about having a personal life. I can tell you running is not fun for me.
Want people to support us when it comes to voting, show them the broken equipment because we do not have the funding/manpower to fix it. Show them the subpar housing issues in the barracks. Show them that reducing our numbers is reducing the number of personnel that deal with our SHARP/EO issues and explain how it might cause a spike in cases for the future. The general public is ignorant of our issues until someone dies. A picture of a few SM's drinking is not going to break the trust and support of the majority of the population.
I can tell you that the American public at large does not care about this picture. The loud groups and organizations that get upset represent a very small percentage of the American population. Going to BWW's to pick up wings for dinner I've been offered a shot, I turned it down because who knows who is watching, but the majority of the public somewhat understands the stress we are under.
If we cannot show the public that we are able to have a good time, and that we ARE people as well, how do we gain their support? Running around like perfect robots that live in our own bubble away from everyone and hiding any type of enjoyment does not foster a great public image. Look at what the Military issues out for PR about us having fun; running events, jumping out of planes, combatives, anything about our jobs and being physically fit, but rarely anything about having a personal life. I can tell you running is not fun for me.
Want people to support us when it comes to voting, show them the broken equipment because we do not have the funding/manpower to fix it. Show them the subpar housing issues in the barracks. Show them that reducing our numbers is reducing the number of personnel that deal with our SHARP/EO issues and explain how it might cause a spike in cases for the future. The general public is ignorant of our issues until someone dies. A picture of a few SM's drinking is not going to break the trust and support of the majority of the population.
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SGM Matthew Quick
We can show the American public that we can 'have a good time' without taking shots of liquor in our combat uniforms.
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My personnel opinion is that sitting down having a drink or two in uniform is not a bad thing. We are adults and do more than most to protect the liberties that we are granted by our country. But professionally, I believe that because we have folks within our ranks that can't behave responsibly we should avoid drinking in uniform. Some might see this image as glamorizing alcohol and there is a constant struggle to keep SM form getting DUIs and being apart of ARIs. I think the army should HAMMER every single DUI case and select mature responsible people to wear the uniform. Then having a celebratory drink or having a drink with colleagues after work in uniform would be ok. With all mechanisms perceived to be “bad” (i.e. alcohol and guns), their is a conscious decision making process that steers an individuals actions prior to and after the implementation of that mechanism. Lets control the people we let in the military, not the LEGAL activities responsible SMs choose to indulge in while wearing the uniform.
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I've had A beer in ACUs before going home. But shots or excessive drinking...never.
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Ok while there are many good points from both sides of the spectrum depending how you are looking at it. But in my opinion as a lower enlisted E-4 and 34 years old( I know better) but i am around alot of newly fresh out of basic privates that if they were to see this picture and were under any of these senior enlisted ncos command, it would be like giving them the green light to do the same. With them its a monkey see monkey do type thing especially if they look up to you as a leader and as a mentor. The way i see it live the way you want to live on your free time but when we get up each morning and put on the uniform we are the embodiment and image of the army, our fallen brothers and sisters, and those we are currently serve with to all who we encounter up until we take the uniform off.
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I say its wrong to drink in uniform at all with the exception of a glass of wine at a formal ball. Even then, moderation is a must. To drink in a combat uniform with your soldiers in a bar is wrong on so many levels. Just remember that your actions in that situation is the example your soldiers will follow.
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SSG (Join to see)
Yes but I was referring to the combat uniform as opposed to the dress uniform. In dress uniform, at a ball having a glass of wine with your dinner is ok but don't over do it.
In combat uniform is never a good idea in my book. With your soldiers at a bar is even worse.
In combat uniform is never a good idea in my book. With your soldiers at a bar is even worse.
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SSG (Join to see)
I have heard of some NCOs going out to drink with their soldiers both at bars and at parties. I was using it to point out that to drink in a combat uniform is bad in my opinion and to do it with your soldiers is worse. The picture posted with this topic looks to be a bar to me.
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Is calling your BDE/BN CSM by his firsts name a good job? No it's a terrible idea and it's even worse when you have photo evidence
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1SG (Join to see)
Do you really see in this photo that anybody is calling a CSM by his/her first name?
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