Posted on Feb 17, 2020
During the draft period, what happened to conscripted members who could not make it past the initial training?
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In an all-volunteer military, there are a certain amount of recruits who just do not make it through basic or the job-specific (AFSC, MOS, whatever the Navy and USMC calls it) training. They are discharged for failure to adapt or to meet standards.
What would have happened to these conscripted members who were unable to meet the minimal standards? Were they just pushed through the system after the training was "presented" to them without having to prove they could actually do the job? Would they have been honorably discharged?
What would have happened to these conscripted members who were unable to meet the minimal standards? Were they just pushed through the system after the training was "presented" to them without having to prove they could actually do the job? Would they have been honorably discharged?
Selective Service (the Draft)
Failure
Training
Discharge
Posted >1 y ago
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First thing is that the classification system was designed to weed out those that couldn't perform because of obvious physical or mental conditions, the designation 4F was for those deemed unfit. If you actually made it to the painted feet, the standards were completely different. From my observation of the remains of the Draft Army when I came in and anecdotally from those that served during the period, there just weren't many standards for the draftees. Couldn't pass PT? You will get in shape in Vietnam. Overweight? Not a problem. A marine friend that is a bit older than I am that served in Marine Infantry claimed that half of his platoon wouldn't have passed the IQ test required today (1966/67 time frame). While I am of the opinion that we put out people that with a bit of motivation would be acceptable soldiers today, the reason for the standards we have today was the Cluster**** that the Vietnam Draft made of the services.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
SPC Richard Zacke - He would not be getting Majors pay while a SSG in the regular Army, but if he had ten years as an Officer, he would retire at his highest rank and pay level.
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SPC Richard Zacke
CPT Lawrence Cable Just going by what SSG Hutenstein told us. We were young pups he took under his wing. But thanks for the info.
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SFC Ronald Miller
Funny thing to say as I was given that choice as the judge was tired of seeing me in traffic court? I tried the Marines first but they had a wait list? Then the Navy but they had a longer wait list? The Air Force was next but they had the longest wait list?? So Across the street was the ARMY recruiter and two weeks later on 14 Sept. 1967 I began my Military Service. 4yrs. active and 22 yrs. Reserves & National Guard. I took a 15.5 yr. break from 1981-1996 Then rejoined the Guard and finished with the Army Reserve in 2007. SFC. Miller Ret. ( Also ... I managed to fit in 26 yrs. of Law Enforcement. )
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History lesson from Vietnam War was Project 100,000. As mentioned by others, our military lowered standards for English proficiency, conduct and intellect in order to draft previously unqualified personnel. Some managed to beat the odds and succeed, but many also died in combat based on ineptitude
https://bigthink.com/politics-current-affairs/story-behind-mcnamaras-morons
https://bigthink.com/politics-current-affairs/story-behind-mcnamaras-morons
Project 100,000: The Vietnam War's cruel experiment on American soldiers
Military recruits are supposed to be assessed to see whether they're fit for service. What happens when they're not?
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MAJ Vance Fleming
Interesting article. Thanks for sharing because I did not know about this program. I have spent more time studying and writing about WWI - Korea.
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LTC Eugene Chu
MAJ Ken Landgren - Even if soldiers know, issue is if they can comprehend. Some of the Project 100,000 draftees had weak language skills or were even illiterate.
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SFC Jo Ann Klawitter
We had one young lady named Teresa fly, and she tried everything she could to get out but none of them worked. She even said things to make it sound like she was insane
She was so funny a bunch of us went to her hometown in West Virginia
PFC Foster wanted to go with us
Foster was a friend to everybody and Joan my cute mate had to tell her she couldn’t go for safety reasons
Still at this time they were hanging Black people
She was so funny a bunch of us went to her hometown in West Virginia
PFC Foster wanted to go with us
Foster was a friend to everybody and Joan my cute mate had to tell her she couldn’t go for safety reasons
Still at this time they were hanging Black people
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I served 1965/68 enlisted but with many drafted men during that period,everyone made it through training ,if not the Army had recycling programs which had a small number of personnel fail,these men were returned to civilian life with a general discharge I think,also had experiences with Pres.Johnson’s 100,000 program in Vietnam ,replacements for Infantry units,piss poor decision by the bean counters in my estimation.
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CW3 Richard Doty
I have no idea if Johnson was involved in that decision, but I believe that SECDEF McNamara owns that one. McNamara was known for making "corporate decisions" that didn't necessarily work in the military. According to one article, "The program brought over 300,000 men to Vietnam who failed to meet minimum criteria for military service, both physically and mentally." Apparently over 320,000 men who could not pass the AFQT were brought in. Yikes!
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SGT Philip Roncari
CW3 Richard Doty
Oh you mean McNamara,the head bean counter that stuck us with the M16 A1 ,piece of crap ,that ,and I can personally attest was a failed weapon system from the git go,he of course was not alone ,that tragic and sometime lethal decision Military and bureaucratic were all too happy to field,unfortunately we poor slobs early in the war paid the price,as for the 100,000 program ,our unit did receive replacements that were pushed through training and really should NOT have been in Infantry line companies,they paid the price in KIAs and WIAs,I was ashamed by our government’s practices to this day,Phil.
Oh you mean McNamara,the head bean counter that stuck us with the M16 A1 ,piece of crap ,that ,and I can personally attest was a failed weapon system from the git go,he of course was not alone ,that tragic and sometime lethal decision Military and bureaucratic were all too happy to field,unfortunately we poor slobs early in the war paid the price,as for the 100,000 program ,our unit did receive replacements that were pushed through training and really should NOT have been in Infantry line companies,they paid the price in KIAs and WIAs,I was ashamed by our government’s practices to this day,Phil.
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SFC Ronald Miller
1968 ... Great Time in AMERICA every cycle in A. I. T. was being sent to NAM for TET our MP unit was placed on hold for a 5 day period and 60 of us were sent to KOREA day after the Pueblo was captured by North Korea??? Yes Sir! Great times!!
SFC MILLER RET.
SFC MILLER RET.
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SGT Philip Roncari
SFC Ronald Miller
1968…I was at Ft.Polk, AIT Committee group instructor for 11b /11c ,had just returned from Vietnam ,just about every one of the trainees were headed to that hell hole,certainly wasn’t a great time for them,Phil.
1968…I was at Ft.Polk, AIT Committee group instructor for 11b /11c ,had just returned from Vietnam ,just about every one of the trainees were headed to that hell hole,certainly wasn’t a great time for them,Phil.
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