Posted on Feb 17, 2020
MAJ Vance Fleming
20.1K
264
73
94
94
0
In an all-volunteer military, there are a certain amount of recruits who just do not make it through basic or the job-specific (AFSC, MOS, whatever the Navy and USMC calls it) training. They are discharged for failure to adapt or to meet standards.

What would have happened to these conscripted members who were unable to meet the minimal standards? Were they just pushed through the system after the training was "presented" to them without having to prove they could actually do the job? Would they have been honorably discharged?
Avatar feed
Responses: 23
CPT Lawrence Cable
28
28
0
First thing is that the classification system was designed to weed out those that couldn't perform because of obvious physical or mental conditions, the designation 4F was for those deemed unfit. If you actually made it to the painted feet, the standards were completely different. From my observation of the remains of the Draft Army when I came in and anecdotally from those that served during the period, there just weren't many standards for the draftees. Couldn't pass PT? You will get in shape in Vietnam. Overweight? Not a problem. A marine friend that is a bit older than I am that served in Marine Infantry claimed that half of his platoon wouldn't have passed the IQ test required today (1966/67 time frame). While I am of the opinion that we put out people that with a bit of motivation would be acceptable soldiers today, the reason for the standards we have today was the Cluster**** that the Vietnam Draft made of the services.
(28)
Comment
(0)
SSG Frank Bova
SSG Frank Bova
2 mo
Just look up McNamara's Project 100,000, or more commonly called The McNamara 100,000 plan. I was DS and got a half platoon of these guys and it was a disaster from beginning to end.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SP5 Delphis Kaczowski
SP5 Delphis Kaczowski
2 mo
Talk to your local draft board for an explanation on how they chose military replacements. How did Donnie get 4F without x-ray films of his heel spur? I was a type 2 diabetic and passed the glucose and all other lab tests. Today I'm on "Insulin".
(0)
Reply
(0)
SFC Jerry McLellen
SFC Jerry McLellen
2 mo
Just a reminder that during the 1966 time frame, Defens3e Secretary Robert McNamara instituted "Project 100,000, also known as McNamara's 100,000, McNamara's Folly, McNamara's Morons, and McNamara's Misfits". Unfortunately, some of those that survived their trip to Vietnam stayed in the military to retirement. After 20 years they were E8's and E9s, that still couldn't put together a legible sentence or pass a third grade spelling test.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SP6 John Garrity
SP6 John Garrity
17 d
Spec 6 John Garrity US Army 1988-69: Project 100,000 was the Army's way of getting more draftees who could not even pass the NON-verbal AFQT at a level of 10 in 100 and to teach them useful civilian skills. Their low scores suggested they had too low likely functional IQ to learn most MOS fields, many therefor ending up in Vietnam as 11B Infantry. Because they all had US67 (Or RA67) Serial Numbers, they were easy to track in TOO MANY numbers in our 1969 25th Infantry Div MASH-Like [MASH in Tay Ninh] B Medical Co in Dau Tieng when they came in as WIA/KIA. As a 91G2o Psych Tech seeing so many coming in, I tried to get % stats on number of US/RA 67's in the leg & mech Inf companies but the camp COL told everyone not to talk to me. It was criminal to exploit these fellow Americans this way, for which America has never taken responsibility. Blue of Red, vet [& retired Federal employee] or anti-war, or BOTH as I am, this was a dark part of our American History that should NEVER have happened nor be repeated.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SGT Philip Roncari
17
17
0
I served 1965/68 enlisted but with many drafted men during that period,everyone made it through training ,if not the Army had recycling programs which had a small number of personnel fail,these men were returned to civilian life with a general discharge I think,also had experiences with Pres.Johnson’s 100,000 program in Vietnam ,replacements for Infantry units,piss poor decision by the bean counters in my estimation.
(17)
Comment
(0)
SP5 Delphis Kaczowski
SP5 Delphis Kaczowski
2 mo
Always remember the Military acronym for battle: THE 6P's; Poor Planning Produces Pssss Poor Performance.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Capt Mark Miller
Capt Mark Miller
2 mo
MacNamara thought recruiting from the Inner City/Ghetto would give them skills and money for a better life. Big Mistake.
(3)
Reply
(0)
SGT Philip Roncari
SGT Philip Roncari
2 mo
Capt Mark Miller
I was one of those Inner City/Ghetto kids,certainly didn’t give me any skills,well yes ,in a sense since my first job leaving Uncle Sam’s army was a ditch digger for a local utility company,what I thought was criminal was the use of marginalized lower IQ people to fill the ranks for that lousy war,Welcome Home Brothers.
(0)
Reply
(0)
CW4 Dana Ahl
CW4 Dana Ahl
2 mo
SP5 Delphis Kaczowski - the actual acronym is ( the 7 Ps) Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Sgt Field Radio Operator
13
13
0
Edited 6 y ago
I served from 1968 to 1972. If a recruit was fat they were sent to the fat farm and there was a platoon for attitude reajustment. If they could not hack it, they did not graduate Boot Camp and were discharged.
(13)
Comment
(0)
SGT Carl Blas
SGT Carl Blas
9 mo
Same for me 72 to 75 at Bragg, the motivation platoon was called CCF (conduct correction facility) some that went there said, it worked for them to adjust their attitude. If CCF didn't work, they went to the brigg for who knows for how long, or what happened to you.

The Fat Farm did PT all day, and meals were adjusted to loose weight, if that didn't work, you were out. The guys did always try to help the Fat guys, giving them advise and taking them out to excersize more, to motivate them.
We always put the fat guys out front of the daily 2 or 5 mile run, to help them move and to keep running. Some fell out, Well, see you later.
(3)
Reply
(0)
SP5 Mark Welch
SP5 Mark Welch
2 mo
I also served from '68-70 because I decided to "volunteer" for the draft and do my 2 years of National Service. Interestingly it was the first day, 4/1/1968 that the Marine Corps was taking draftees. Out of 30 or so my room at the LA Induction Station, they took maybe 6. I did Basic at Ft Ord in Monterey and our company was probably 50/50 US/RA. I am commenting because I found the dedication level and effort expended to be very similar of both groups, although I didn't think much about it at the time. Our DI's and CO were making us into one unit and the CO was really serious about "no man left behind." It was then that I learned what being a soldier was all about. As it turned out in my case, I got my dream assignment to MI due to a language proficiency test I passed in Basic, and was sent to Germany for the rest of my 18 months in the service. Out of my 40 man POW Interrogator class at Ft Holabird in Baltimore, 3 of us were sent to Germany and the rest to Nam, no matter which language they spoke. I salute all who served during those years whether Draftee (US) or Regular Army (RA). Everyone of us signed a blank check to Uncle Sam and then did our duty. To those who actually served in Combat zones like Nam, I give the highest respect. Thank you all for your Service; in my case it was a pleasure to serve.
Sp 5 Mark Welch,
Vacaville, CA
(3)
Reply
(0)
Capt Mark Miller
Capt Mark Miller
2 mo
SGT Carl Blas - Yep. Saw a guy sitting in the Brig at Lackland. Had a guy blow his brains outb on the range just before I got there in 1974.
(2)
Reply
(0)
SFC Jerry McLellen
SFC Jerry McLellen
2 mo
SGT Carl Blas - I spent a total of 15 years at Bragg, and CCF was the "Correctional Custody Facility", not "conduct correction facility", as you claim. There was no actual "fat farm" either. During LTG Henry Emerson's (Gunfighter) and LTG Jack McMull's (also overweight) tenures as 18th Airborne Commanders there was a specific mess hall that the overweight guys were supposed to eat in. Didn't last for long, but your claim of overweight soldiers doing PT all day is a falsehood.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close