Falsely claiming PTSD for VA benefits?

Every veteran who has served in a combat zone suffers from PTSD at some level. Some very small, some very large.

Some Veterans bring their Anxieties and Mental Issues with them when they enter the military. The nature of Service Connected simply implies that whatever that person did in the Military resulted in less than maximum participation in the workforce.

It is way to complicated to find simple solutions. The process of obtaining a PTSD disability is strenuous and goes thru several level to ultimately reach the level of disability.

War Zones changes people.

I am 90% Service Connected, paid at 100% because I am unemployable. The process I went thru was filled with Psychiatrist, Psychologist, and Counseling visits. Immensely helpful. I function well today, because I do not have to worry about finances. I do not have to worry about medical care. I do not believe I could do it without my VA disability.

You cannot always tell what's in a book by it's cover. Judging others without the benefit of all the information is just rumor mongering and just being a busy body. The professionals in the VA have done their job! None of us, should judge them without having the proper credentials.

Why do you care? How does this affect you personally?

Also PTSD = Post Traumatic Stress Disorder...so anyone can suffer from it if they suffered from trauma. If one is in a serious car accident, sexual assault, etc, you can get PTSD. Childhood abuse, domestic violence. The list goes on. People need to stop thinking you only get PTSD in combat.

No offense but there is certainly a lot of he said, she said, and speculation. As for PTSD, many pepp op or are affecting by things in life differently. It could be that he made up stories about his experience in order to justify his level of PTSD, not wishing to admit that the environment itself got to him. As for telling his family one thing only to recant is a classic sign that he may be dealing with deeper issues, I.e. there is nothing wrong with me, you have nothing to fear I mad me it all up. This is done, in some instances, to take the concern from the family. As for not taking meds, that too is a common issue.

The psychologists at the VA have the distinct advantage of accessing his entire military and medical record, they know where he was, for how long, and in most cases what he experienced.

If he is legit, then his Family should ask to attend a family counseling session with the VA in order to learn how to support him, he’ll he is troubled either way, PTSD or not. So money aside he needs help. Also, the VA reassess all levels of compensation about every five years until about 55. They will also review over 55 if the condition is one that is thought to be repairable. So, if he is a fraud he will be found out, and removed or reduced.

So my first thought would be the benefit of the doubt, if he won’t attend a family session, I recommend his loved ones seek counseling and read up on how to help and cope with him. Soldiers are very adapt at masking their feelings. God Bless.

I just spent the last 45 minutes or so reading the various posts in this thread. And perhaps slightly longer writing this response in between coffee breaks chatting with my wife and playing with our 'needy' 2.5 yr old Huskie.

First, great topic and some very interesting and thoughtful responses on the whole.

First, my wife who is also USN (Ret) worked at the Navy's Drug and Alcohol Rehab Center at NOB, Norfolk for 3-yrs. I was aboard ship during the time. We did not often speak of work, but when we did the conversations were interesting. She once told me of a story of high performing yet borderline alcoholic USAF Officer what had been sent to the center by his command for treatment. Long story short one day the Officer finally broken down about a traumatic event in his youth. Accordingly, he had shut the room up and his fellow "recoveries" listened intently.

His story was a story of misplaced discipline that did not allow for love or measured compassion. It is a classic story of a desire for a father (aka male role model) to be hard nosed and never show an ounce of care for fear of being seen as weak. A fear he passed to his son by suppressing his (that is his son's) desire for joy in his life, because perhaps their had been no joy in his own. The USAF Officer had risen to Major with early selection at each opportunity to advance, according to my wife. But, this gentleman was troubled and haunted by his youth. As my wife told of his story I could not help but think about our two small children at the time, especially my son, who was younger than his sister by a couple of years. I could not help but understand how important being both firm yet loving is a tight rope every parent walks and prays that even a gentle breeze does not plunge them into oblivion. This USAF Officer could no longer hide his alcohol dependence or the tell-tale signs it was leaving. Someone in his chain of command exercised a level of compassion to help him save himself - from himself. The one thing this USAF Officer wanted most was for his father to fly a kite with him. Simple, one would think. Paper, balsa wood and string and perhaps some ribbon for a tail. Fairly inexpensive activity.

Yet, can we call a "no joy" on this one? This built up and built up until the Officer's capacity to suppress and repress the impact of the act of rejection was beginning to overwhelm him and impact his otherwise superior sustained performance. The solution to getting this Officer back on track was simple and elegant. His fellow participants were so moved they asked my wife to lobby for them to be able to all go to Virginia Beach to surprise him and fly kites. Typically, this was not protocol. But, in typical fashion my wife, typically a tough lady, showed her often guarded softer side by convincing the counseling staff that it made sense as part of the healing process to get an official bus to that that class to the beach. So, on a Friday afternoon in late October on a somewhat deserted beach with a 15 mph breeze blowing across the sand this group of vulnerable people took their classmate out for a day none would soon forget and from which all would reveal and heal in ways they did not realize they would. Unknown to the Officer the men and women, black and white, enlisted and officer alike boarded a 40 pack bus to the beach as part of a "planned activity" for that group. Only the USAF Officer did not know it was ALL for him.

The bus had been pre-loaded the night before with kites so that the person in question had no idea they were even their. Coolers of drinks (water, soda, tea) had been loaded before dawn. Boxes of lunches were loaded just after dawn just as the "students" were waking. By 07:30 all were up and by 08:00 all were headed to breakfast at the beach. Arrangements had been made to get them feed, not at the chow hall, but near the beach.

After breakfast around 10:00 am the supposed activity was to go to the beach and just walk. Some of the participants simply made sure the Officer was surround by people while others got out the kites. Then the surprise was exposed when he saw people bringing kites of all shapes and sizes to fly. For nearly six hours he flew kites to his great joy. A hole had been filled in his heart and spirit that had been filled by his own father. My wife said that this group came together and stuck together not only through the remainder of their treatment process, but were one of the strongest post treatment groups in her three+ years of her service as an intake specialist.

Why tell this story? Simple...take a moment to also read this article 25 Jul 2020 article entitled - How PTSD can look like Borderline Personality Disorder, by Christine Hammond, MS, LMHC. This 31 Jul 2020 article entitled - CPTSD, PTSD, OCD and Trauma: How Creating Boundaries Will Set You Free, by Jenna Grace may also be helpful to some.

During my time as a Navy Corpsman, especially being a Chief, some fellow sailors from my commands were sent to my wife. My COs were glad I had that in. I cannot begin to recount the stories we now talk about more freely than we did on AD, for obvious reasons. But, there was many a day after duty when she would come home and I knew she was tired, but a sort of happy tired. A tired you get when you have allow the human condition to work on the gentle cycle to wash just the dirt out of good clothes.

Also, there is an emerging body of research regarding ACES (Adverse Childhood Experiences). This involves issue of child abuse in many forms from cruel emotional events to the deflowering of innocence, usually at the hands of adults, but also at the hands of under-aged bullies, thugs really. See the CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/acestudy/index.html) to 'begin' to understand the ACES issue. Also, search PubMed if you want to begin to understand the cross and intersections that such events heap long term on our young. A study of ACES does not a lack of discipline, in fact it requires self-discipline to instill proper discipline in a manner the mitigates ACES and growth strong, healthy and resilient human beings.

All in all, there are those whose minds and hearts are 'nefarious' by nature and will do that which does not hold them accountable either to themselves or to others. But, what can do is to try to make the system holds them accountable both to themselves and to others. That is why I appreciate that SSgt Richard Kensinger regarding his "5 decades...of clinical..." experience. Each person's reflections in this post are valid and are presented from a "...certain point of view...." Yet, as true as what SSgt Marvin Cole when he says that "...War Zones changes people..." so do operations in peace time. What about flight operations when a rooter from a CH-53 spins off cutting the unsuspecting sailor in half. The trauma this "peacetime" event can cause, if left unchecked can be hard to deal with. That is why what SPC Anitra Bailey-Bearfield was so important to read.

But, the Socratic Method, is critical, because we know that there are those well practiced who would, as easily as those that have "Stolen Value" only to puff themselves up will take from those deserving to attempt to give to themselves something they don't deserve and have never earned - honor!

So this tread, so far, has been the kind of post that demonstrates measured response and consideration from multiple vectors. I think 3e5x1-engineering is very wise in her statement when she said:

"...PTSD does not require more than a second of an event and it doesn’t matter if you never fire your weapon, or even have a weapon for that matter. PTSD can occur for a host of reasons, combat is just one example..."

In my current work as a Data Scientist and Research Specialist I read and review all sorts of vetted articles and research materials on PTSD and other topics specific to veterans and their families for the training my company develops for commercial healthcare. This provides me an interesting view on the world and topics, like PTSD. It also happens my sister is trained in psychology and sociology and was an Army wife for 20 yrs until her husband got stupid. She served, as a DoD civilian, in front-line operations to support the troops that also included 5 yrs in the 'green zone'. She is in the desert now as I type this response. We get to have many conversations including one just a few days ago. One the outside she is hard, but a softer more gentle spirit you will not find. She may come across like a drill Sargent, but like my wife of > 40 years she reads things well and take no crap, especially when the sly are trying to BS her. That brings me to this final point.

I believe CSM Darieus ZaGara is onto something by reminding us that...:

"...The psychologists at the VA have the distinct advantage of accessing his entire military and medical record, they know where he was, for how long, and in most cases what he experienced...."

What is important now is that we heed what SSG Trevor S. has shared...:

"...False claims allocate resources to those who don't need it, overburdens the compensation funds causing "cost savings measures" to hurt others (such as refusing concurrent receipt for retirees under 50%), and causes social stigma for all Veterans in the workplace and society in general..."

In the end, the fraud of the 10% hurts the care needed by 90% and impacts 100% of the population! Mental health is a true double-edge sword - With it applied in proper measure we begin to solve 'real issues', but when it is misused either by the individual or at a societal level we actually create a multiplying negative effect.

SSG Smith also make a critical observation when he says...:

"...If you can prove this person is committing fraud then report them to the VA..."

But, one has to be wrapped real tight and such 'documentation' has to be carefully recorded and corroborated. Think of it this way, it takes at least TWO 'honest' eye-witnesses to make a recommendation for the MOH. Before the MOH is awarded the investigation is intense because the 'worthiness' to have such an honor bestowed is weighed and measured with great intensity!!!

So, MSgt B Grimes, I am just an old Navy Chief 'Doc', what do I know? If you are concerned carefully write up your 'evidence'. Present it on draft paper as you would as if you are briefing the CO after a careful investigation that he has asked you to examine. I am sure you have been in such a position before. This gives you a chance to reflect on what is taking place. Speak to both facts 'in evidence' and the facts that right now - only seem to be conjecture.


I agree with CSM Darieus ZaGara when he says...:

"...If he is legit, then his Family should ask to attend a family counseling session with the VA in order to learn how to support him,..." Furthermore, he is correct that "...if he won’t attend a family session, I recommend his loved ones seek counseling and read up on how to help and cope with him. Soldiers (aka military types in general) are very adapt at masking their feelings...."

If his family, who should know his character, is not trusting his bloviating story about his exploits, then tread carefully. He may need help, but he needs to see he needs help. A 2006 movie called "Home of the Brave" staring Samuel L. Jackson, speaks to issues that may be germane here. If you have not watched it watch. While it is 'Hollywood' it is interesting and informative.

Finally, keep in mind that many who have not served find what many have given in the service to our country is often beyond their comprehension or belief. Perhaps, that is because they have never chosen to test themselves in the crucibles of military service - in or out of a war zone. That is not to say their experiences are less or more, they are just different and like ours have to be respected with the benefit of the doubt - until proven otherwise. That does not mean not holding someone accountable, rather it means the opposite in being accountable!

As you give counsel to his family, remind, them that if he has committed a genuine fraud that he remains a human being who will require their support. They don't have to excuse his behavior, rather they have to work to help him accept accountability and seek to get at the root cause of the need to perpetrate such an act. It is a narrow path you are considering walking. Once you have started down that path there is no turning back.

If this person has 'delusions of grandeur' then as CSM ZaGara said "...if he is a fraud he will be found out...." Our jobs as senior enlisted are complexly simple or simply complex. Who would have thought?

I'll leave you with this...:

Imagine this is your younger brother or sister that you have grown up with. How would you break them down so that you could build them up to be stronger and more honest? What would you consider and why? From what position do you want to help your sibling - legalistic or compassionate or some combination of both?

Doing the right thing is ALWAYS hard. But knowing that it is RIGHT is ALWAYS the hardest and fraught with doubt!!!

The question is ... Are you willing to go the distance and be their on the other side when this human-being will need you the most and at their most vulnerable point? (OR) Is what you are asking a matter that you see to correct what appears to be fraud, that is actually fear manifested in stories the "story teller" cannot now take back or control, for fear of being discovered as a fraud? Remember.....:

Never allow the 'real valor' of those humble who don't voice it in bloviation to be stolen, and never allow those with a tendency for such bloviation the opportunity to steal the humble valor of those so blessed by such courage and grace. Yet, give the bloviator the opportunity to seek forgiveness and ask for honest non-judgmental - help to hold them accountable, if they are prepared to do the hard work - to heal!

In any event, just some old Navy guy's thoughts.......

COL Mikel J. Burroughs; SFC James J Palmer IV (JP4); LTC Stephen F.; Maj Robert Carson; Maj Marty Hogan; Lt Col Charlie Brown; LTC (Join to see);LTC Stephen C.; SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth; LTC Jason Mackay; MSgt Robert "Rock" Aldi; SCPO Morris Ramsey

Going to play devil’s advocate here. What if the person was a victim of MST? Perhaps this Veteran is stating a lot of lies and different things in order to simply avoid the real issue that he is suffering from, and perhaps does not want the truth to be out there.

The Original Poster mentioned multiple times “never fires his weapon in combat” or “never fires his weapon in actual combat”. That does not mean anything at all towards PTSD and really shows a different agenda or disposition from the original poster. This type of thinking really should stop. pTSD can come from any event and triggers one person different than what it can trigger another person. Judging someone that has PTSD by your own definition of what PTSD seems to be in your eyes is a really bad idea and bordering on toxic like behavior. It’s unfortunate because the mentality of quite a few people is “if you did not go to combat, you can’t claim PTSD”. It’s a very incorrect statement.

For all of you experts that say you know for positive that Vets are taking advantage of the system just so they don’t have to work even though the majority of the comments attacking and insulting your brother and sisters in arms, are coming from those who have no idea how the VA works, are not psychiatrists, psychologists, counselors and have no training or credentials in the VA health care system. You attack the he VA and the men and women who desperately need the help that the VA provides. Yes people abuse systems in every facet of life but they are not the majority. Yes does the VA have problems but since I first arrived at a VA hospital after being honorably discharged over 20 years ago. Making such generalized statements and attacking and insulting fellow vets without even hearing and listening to what they have to say is very dangerous and ignorant. For the past 10 years 6000 vets have killed themselves every year. That is 60,000 veterans who took an oath to protect this country but felt things were so bad no one was there for them. It is because of this total disregard of facts and the need to just call everybody out like it has anything to do with you. 60,000 brave men and women! I could care less if every vet was paid 100% as long as not one more vet kills themselves because they felt they had no other options. I know first hand what it feels like to think your a lesser and weak man because I’m not able to just shrug off all the shit I’ve gone through as firefighter in the Navy and a first responder as a civilian. I was determined to be unemployable by the VA and that in itself makes you feel like a lesser person and that you failed in life. Add to that I was also determined to be totally disable by social security after herniating 12 disks in my back after an accident on an ambulance while I was an EMT. The constant feeling that friends and family think I’m faking it because I don’t look disabled. They were t at the therapy sessions, rehab, seeing for over 20 years having medications adjusted, stopped put on new ones. They are not there when you wake up from constant nightmares and pain with cold sweats so bad you have to change you clothes and sheets in the middle of the night because they are soaking wet. They don’t know barely anything I’m going through and guess what you haven’t the slightest idea what those who you insulted and look down on while you puff your chest because 1. You have nothing to do with the care and treatments and their military history and 2. It’s none of your damn business. The next time you want to sound off about who does and doesn’t deserve a disability rating just stop and think about those 6000 vets who kill themselves every year. 22 a day! Did you do anything to try and stop those numbers or are you part of the problem because of the hateful comments you post online about others who have served their country.

Every person that has served in the military suffers from some form of ptsd, you don't have to have combat, combat makes it worse. Being separated from you family, screamed at constantly, if you are in a terrible unit many things cause ptsd because the are people that never served in the military have ptsd.

One does not just get "released" from the Guard. He was either discharged for the crime of threatening to kill his team members or he was medically discharged mental health reasons. If the discharge was based on criminal reasons that would explain why it took 12 years for his VA claim, because before his claim could be processed his discharge would have to be upgraded. If it was for mental health reasons, it was probably lack of follow through and not turning in paperwork on time.
As prior service you can join with an existing condition, (even if you forget to tell the recruiter as long as you do not intentionally conceal it). If he had a mental health condition that hadn't caused problems between his service and joining the Guard and that would have been waived if noted in his paperwork that is not a fraudulent enlistment. (PTSD can lay dormant and be triggered by seemingly unrelated incidents so that MAY be the case here.)
You say he lied to his family about having been a heroic sniper and expressed concern that he may have lied to the VA psychologist as well in order to get his rating. Unlike his family the VA can access his military records, and incidents of that nature would be verified. His disability does not sound like it is 100% for PTSD; it sounds as if he has a partial PTSD rating combined with something for a physical issue, (the usual things are tinnitus/hearing loss and back pain caused by service injury) that causes him to be unemployable and that is how he is getting 100%.
Is this fraud? Not in any technical sense of the word. So no, the VA is not going to spend resources trying to do anything about it. They have too few people to waste their time on a maybe case.
If you wonder what makes me qualified to speak on this matter; I was in charge of the MMRB's (medical boards) for the VTARNG for several years, I also was responsible for The MEB/PEB process and I developed Vermont's MAR2 program. While in the Reserves I was a Unit Administrator and I spent my teenage years helping my Father (a retired DAV Service Officer) prepare cases. The details about fraudulent enlistment are information I know from having to consult with the JAG and the IG on cases. I hope this answered your questions.

I’m service connected with major depressive disorder, PTSD, migraines and am now undergoing additional assessment for a TBI. I served in the most deployed division in the army and was constantly on the go, enduring extreme abuse from toxic command and being forced to drive unsafe vehicles that needed to be pulled from the line to which I have been both dragged out of and hit my head off the turret about a dozen times. I’ve never been to a combat zone. It’s easy to judge without all the information. What I will say is in order to even get an official ptsd diagnosis under the va and with a high percentage its a heavily vetted process and very hard to bullshit.

Does fraud exist ?, well Yes but PTSD does have different ways of showing itself. Not everyone reacts the same way or has the same levels to bear stress. I've kind of always avoided seeking anything for PTSD and between military and also civilian Police I've handled a lot but seemed to do so ok, not everyone does. I always felt there were others that did far more than I did. I didn't have an awareness of one thing though, not being bothered by things but losing all memory of it such as seeing guys I knew being killed and not even remembering their names or could see their faces even though i knew them before going to Vietnam. I never had bad dreams about them and it came back when someone else I knew mentioned them, then I forgot again. I never forget anyone usually by appearance although names is another story anyway. That doesn't get better I guess if You add getting senile and old to that, LOL. One of My friends a Sergeant Major in Army Special Force though I should pursue the issue with the VA but I tend to think it kind of minor for Me and besides I always handled the high stress Military and Police contacts and kept control. I collect retired pay anyway from the Military for over 20 years service and the same for a civilian Police Department. I won't say I've never been scared but didn't let it stop Me from doing what I had to. Most the time just had to react, didn't have time to think about it. As a Police Officer however, veterans knowing I was a Vietnam Veteran was able to calm them down and no one had to use force. I do understand what some were going through. Fakes ? well Yes I sure have found some, its pretty apparent and many of htose were not even Veterans at all or were never in a combat zone as some claimed or doing what they claimed to do. The fakes are usually pretty easy to spot. That however makes it harder for those with legitimate claims of PTSD. Just some of My thoughts.

Not too related but I usually say " I can't blame anything wrong with Me on the Military, I was a Nut before I ever went in! " Well anyway I do handle My own issues and always kind of questioned how sane many shrinks are based on My experience with them in My Law Enforcement functions. I can think of a few incidents within their own families that they were the problem. one of those He called about His son being a problem, well it wasn't the son it was Him and the son would come to talk to Me as He couldn't talk to His father. I would listen and the way the son solved His problem was to enlist in the US Marines and get away from His Dad and it was the best thing He had ever done and that was good for the son.