Posted on Dec 1, 2016
Has anyone ever been in a screaming match or any altercation with their superiors?
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Lol I put hands on my NCO AS AN E3 down at Bliss. I had an on going family situation going on as my little girl had just passed away. He knew this situation but didn't seem to care much ... not his problem I guess . However he then decided that he wasn't going to sign my pass to go home . granted I just got back from deployment ... My child was in Philadelphia... she passed the night we returned . Since everyone else had okay'd it ...I was told to purchase a plane ticket immediately ... which I did ... him deciding that he was going to hold my paperwork until he felt ready made me miss the flight ...
Clearly he and I have a checkered history... but rather than argue further I took it up with 1sg and Co Commander ... they flat out told me to leave and they'd handle which they did. He however, decided that he was going to try to give me an Article 15 for not signing out ( yes I forgot to do that )
So after gettin back I immediately requested leave ... obvious reasons ...
Next thing you know ... I'm
In his office being told ... I'm a bitch... not cut out for his army... pos...
( he's only an E5 at 14 years in... I musta not been the only bitch... and that's what I said to him )
2 other NCOS sat quietly as the whole thing transpired ...
And I was tired of being disrespected by this man ...
He asked me to repeat myself.. so I did ...
calls me to attention...I complied
Half right face.... I complied
Front leaning rest position ... move!
I stood silently ..
He repeated himself again...
I stood there now smiling
He then grabs me by my collar to attempt to force me to drop...
At that point ... it's game on... touched the wrong Staff Private
( even worse that I hear my senior NCO yell out ... oh shit get em J ... fuck him up Philly ) instead of stopping me .
At this point I thought I'd be kicked out anyway so I made sure he paid for it
... somehow it never got out past them even tho you'd hear jokes once in awhile when he'd say something .. better chill out Johnson just got promoted ... he goin out them hands on you....
He got out a year later with a bruised ego...
Me... I turned out alright
Sorry for the long winded story but I figure you could use some entertainment
Clearly he and I have a checkered history... but rather than argue further I took it up with 1sg and Co Commander ... they flat out told me to leave and they'd handle which they did. He however, decided that he was going to try to give me an Article 15 for not signing out ( yes I forgot to do that )
So after gettin back I immediately requested leave ... obvious reasons ...
Next thing you know ... I'm
In his office being told ... I'm a bitch... not cut out for his army... pos...
( he's only an E5 at 14 years in... I musta not been the only bitch... and that's what I said to him )
2 other NCOS sat quietly as the whole thing transpired ...
And I was tired of being disrespected by this man ...
He asked me to repeat myself.. so I did ...
calls me to attention...I complied
Half right face.... I complied
Front leaning rest position ... move!
I stood silently ..
He repeated himself again...
I stood there now smiling
He then grabs me by my collar to attempt to force me to drop...
At that point ... it's game on... touched the wrong Staff Private
( even worse that I hear my senior NCO yell out ... oh shit get em J ... fuck him up Philly ) instead of stopping me .
At this point I thought I'd be kicked out anyway so I made sure he paid for it
... somehow it never got out past them even tho you'd hear jokes once in awhile when he'd say something .. better chill out Johnson just got promoted ... he goin out them hands on you....
He got out a year later with a bruised ego...
Me... I turned out alright
Sorry for the long winded story but I figure you could use some entertainment
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SSG Brian Pyle
Very sorry for your loss, I can't even imagine going through so much pain. That said, so much is wrong with the situation. The fact that the other two NCO's were egging you on is the worst example of leadership. (this probably says a lot about the Sergeant that put his hands on you, your leadership, and your company). The fact you referred to yourself as a staff private says a little about you. You felt ok with running it up the chain after you missed your flight, but not immediately after he held your paperwork? Why? I have been on deployments and nobody in my unit returned as an E-3.....I think some facts have been omitted. Let's say the story is true, why when you returned during the confrontation did you not leave the room and go directly to the 1SG or Commander, by your own words they were aware of the situation? I find it hard to believe that the 1SG or the Commander didn't have the request for the Article 15 come across their desk and stop the progress to investigate further? Again very sorry for your loss, but little to nothing about the about the events ring true, or at least not totally forthcoming about what actually happened.
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Sgt Michael Clifford
I observed a similar incident. A young PFC who was a bit of a diddybob but had some leadership potential when he maturesd a little. Apparently he irked the platton sgt. a staff sergeant who made his rank on the drill field and embassy duty. In the NCO quarters doorway he started messing with the kid. Then he grabbed the kid by the collars and was pushing. Before you could blink the kid hit him twice. The Lt and a couple of squad leaders were present. Staff Sgt. was powerless to do anything because he put his hands on the kid first. This occured late in my second input and I was transferred within a week or two but I am guessing that life didn't get better for the kid.
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LTC Martin Glynn
I’m truly sorry about the loss of your daughter.
As a commander, any NCO who threatened any Soldier with an Article 15 was on my sh*tlist, and would be getting some corrective training from the 1SG or CSM.
NCO’s can’t give anyone an Article 15; they can only recommend punishment under Article 15 of the UCMJ to a commander who has the UCMJ authority to impose it. So any NCO who threatens a Soldier with an Article 15 is basically saying that he thinks he can tell the commander what to do.
I have held both company grade and field grade UCMJ authority, and I used it sparingly and reluctantly. I became a commander to lead Soldiers, not to punish them. In all the years that I was in command, there were actually more Soldiers who had to be court-martialed (for criminal offenses / unavoidable reasons) than Soldiers who received non-judicial punishment under Article 15 from me.
I firmly believe that corrective training from good NCO’s is far superior to punishment under Article 15. So unless an NCO was able to convince my 1SG / CSM that a Soldier was deliberately ignoring the lessons of NCO corrective training and an Article 15 was absolutely necessary, it wasn’t likely that I would be issuing one.
As a commander, any NCO who threatened any Soldier with an Article 15 was on my sh*tlist, and would be getting some corrective training from the 1SG or CSM.
NCO’s can’t give anyone an Article 15; they can only recommend punishment under Article 15 of the UCMJ to a commander who has the UCMJ authority to impose it. So any NCO who threatens a Soldier with an Article 15 is basically saying that he thinks he can tell the commander what to do.
I have held both company grade and field grade UCMJ authority, and I used it sparingly and reluctantly. I became a commander to lead Soldiers, not to punish them. In all the years that I was in command, there were actually more Soldiers who had to be court-martialed (for criminal offenses / unavoidable reasons) than Soldiers who received non-judicial punishment under Article 15 from me.
I firmly believe that corrective training from good NCO’s is far superior to punishment under Article 15. So unless an NCO was able to convince my 1SG / CSM that a Soldier was deliberately ignoring the lessons of NCO corrective training and an Article 15 was absolutely necessary, it wasn’t likely that I would be issuing one.
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Behind closed doors, heated discussions, absolutely. In front of the kids....NEVER
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SGT Beth Day
CPL Gary Dishman - I had a job like that. ED'd from everything. Sure makes the first shirts hate you though!
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SGM Erik Marquez
LT William Pellegrini - "All junior officers should look in the mirror and admit that they don't know anything about how to do their jobs"
I will politely and professionally disagree, while a common perception. I will counter with who in the platoon has been given the latest most up-to-date doctrinal information...the same information senior leaders at the DIV and BDE are using to drive the battalion or Bde.... Thats the SM I want to use to fullest advantage
I will politely and professionally disagree, while a common perception. I will counter with who in the platoon has been given the latest most up-to-date doctrinal information...the same information senior leaders at the DIV and BDE are using to drive the battalion or Bde.... Thats the SM I want to use to fullest advantage
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Suspended Profile
Once with our air ops NCO, and it wasn't because he tried to pull us into being a DZ party the day after we came back from a 6 month deployment. It was because he dared to hang up on me while we were still discussing it. CSM solved the issue and told the ops shop staff I wasn't really mad, it was just a matter of courtesy.
SPC Matt Ovaska
I was told 2nd Lt's lasted about 2 weeks in Nam. I was up for OCS and turned it down. 90 day wonders were in short supply. I would be interested in the number of 2nd Lt's on the wall. all those purple hearts from friendly fire. A dark time in history. So sad.
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I don't have "superiors." I have seniors. I have been in VERY "heated discussions" with my seniors at times (because of safety or HUGE morale concerns they hadn't considered). I have always attempted to shift those discussions outside "public view" however. Sometimes you have to tell the boss they're wrong. If you don't, his boss will, and his boss will be less nice than you will. You won't hurt his career (only his ego). His boss has the potential to do both.
If your senior can't handle you being honest (and as TACTFUL as the situation calls for), then sometimes you need to escalate the "discussion parameters" up a hair.
If your senior can't handle you being honest (and as TACTFUL as the situation calls for), then sometimes you need to escalate the "discussion parameters" up a hair.
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SSG Robert Pratt
I once got into it with an SFC. He told be I had an attitude problem, I told him he gave it to me. We got along just fine after that.
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SP5 Floyd Raff
I was deployed to Iraq in 05 having just returned from R&R I was not back on duty but in the company area. The supply Ssgt told me I needed to sign my hand receipt. I told him I already signed it. He replied I am not in the mood for smart ass comments I will talk to the commander and have him issue you a directive to sign it. realizing that I was in the wrong ( this paperwork gets signed annually and it had been a year) I walked into the supply room and asked the e-5 where my hand receipt was so I could sign it. Him having heard the conversation I had with the E-6 made a comment about him "putting my attitude problem in check" . I then explained to the E-5 " I don't have an attitude problem Ssssgt has a perception problem, as I have not seen this gear in over 60 days i was not legally obligated to to sign the hand receipt before I had the oppertunity to get back to my section and conduct an inventory of said gear to ensure that it was intact and serviceable I was not required to sign the paperwork. but Ssgt having to deal with 300 people he did not need me mouthing off to him right or wrong and nobody told me my stuff had been blown up I had confidence that it was where I left it. So I sign the paper work and moved on. 3 months later I asked Ssgt for a pair of botlaces and he handed me a whole new pair of boots.
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SSG Raul Alaniz
SGT Aaron Kennedy-AGREED on "discussion parameters" but you still have to be just a little careful in how you address Seniors NCO and Officers. From what I'm hearing in this post, on how lower enlist out did NCO's and/or NCO's out did Officers, that is not always the case, you still can get burned on being disrespectful. It can happen and I've seen it happen, I'm a 20 year retired Veteran, I've had my share of arguments, excuse me discussions, but Always, Always with TACT, and believe me I have been tested, on both sides of the house, and I'm no angel.
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I still don't talk about these things and it's been 25 years at least. I had one SSG who would wake me every morning by grabbing me by the ankles and yanking me out of bed. More than once I hit my head and bruised my back. I got tired of it. I talked with my section SFC and he tried to get the SSG to stop it. One day I wore my boots to bed. Next day the man came in to yank me out of bed and I kicked that guy in the face hard! That's the Army I grew up in. We were in TOP's office in no time. SSG wanted to article 15 me. Apparently, there is some rule somewhere that goes back to the war in Vietnam that says a soldier isn't responsible for what he does during the first 30 seconds after someone wakes him. I still don't know if that's true but charges were dropped, the SSG stopped yanking me out of bed every morning, and we got along a little better. Lol!
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CPT William Jones
We learned that troops awakened from sound sleep may do anything. Grunts on patrol just sleeping tried to sleep in a circle to cover all sides. You woke your buddy by tapping on soles of his feet starting gently.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
We had a 2nd Lt that also woke up a sleeping troop and had done it a few times. He was broken of that bad habit one occasion He tried and the reached out with His arm and punched the Lt. Other told the Lt, He was sleeping, when You wake up a sleeping person it takes a minute or two to respond, its not uncommon to not grasp what is going on and hit someone. That Lt did learn from that and never did it again. If You have to wake someone up make sure of Your location to them in case they do respond and reach out in those seconds after being awaken. The Lt was a bit slow to learn but He did and after gaining some experience had improved a lot.
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SFC Jeffrey Port
I did same thing, but it was the captain that got belted! I told him I was scared and thought someone was attacking me!
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Sgt Ed Allen
The 30 second rule is real. One of the funniest things I ever saw was when my brother Ken woke up my brother Keith. Keith had been in the Navy during Viet Nam. He told us flat out that if we needed to wake him up, to do so from the door by calling his name. Ken decided that wouldn't do. He hit Keith on the leg. Keith woke up instantly by sitting up and decking Ken with a solid left to the face.
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I retired after 31+ years and I can recall three, once as a E5, once as an E6 and once as a E9 in EVERY situation is was due to my seniors doing either an unethical or a dishonest action. In the case of when I was in the CMC (E9) billet I slammed the door on the CSO's office so hard that the framing nails pulled out of the wood. Hard to hold an art. 15 or CM for disrespect (or actually a physical threat I was so ticked) when it would be revealed violations of the UCMJ by the command. I am NOT going to go into details but YES - It happens. By the by, my brother and others stated that I would not survive in the civilian word due to my over the top attitude towards ethical behavior and morality, YEP - fired from three different positions due to "not fitting in". Also known as "you have to go along to get along (apparently a certain level of dishonesty and corruption is required between the military, the GS's and the contracting companies)." After the third termination I just retired and gave up on "the real world".
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SSgt Carroll Straus
I guess I was lucky because even though I was the first woman in my 30474 shops in the United States Air Force, I never got into any kind of overt issue with any superior officer. Of course I want to head when he was a total jackass and two that were great. But it was the Air Force after all.
But I did get into it with a fellow airman one time. Actually, he got into it with me but I took it farther than I would’ve thought. I was going through a lot because I was newly married and they kept sending my husband to Guam well I was still in Mississippi and we never saw each other. I have just been trying to get some sort of accommodation and of course being told to go pound sand with this jerk off airman pull the chair out from under me and let me fall to the ground. Everybody in the hanger started laughing and I lost my cool completely. I grabbed the guy who was not much taller than I was and shook him and said “you you you… Asshole!”
Then I throw him and he fled by before he can exit the hanger I picked up one of those heavy duty chairs that we all know and love and threw it across the hanger. I can’t believe I did it and I’m glad it didn’t hit him but it didn’t. I didn’t get in any trouble even though I think I was considered quite the problem child for quite a while. I later heard that he pulled another stupid truck on someone and went to jail for it. God knows I can’t prove that but I’d love to believe it.
But I did get into it with a fellow airman one time. Actually, he got into it with me but I took it farther than I would’ve thought. I was going through a lot because I was newly married and they kept sending my husband to Guam well I was still in Mississippi and we never saw each other. I have just been trying to get some sort of accommodation and of course being told to go pound sand with this jerk off airman pull the chair out from under me and let me fall to the ground. Everybody in the hanger started laughing and I lost my cool completely. I grabbed the guy who was not much taller than I was and shook him and said “you you you… Asshole!”
Then I throw him and he fled by before he can exit the hanger I picked up one of those heavy duty chairs that we all know and love and threw it across the hanger. I can’t believe I did it and I’m glad it didn’t hit him but it didn’t. I didn’t get in any trouble even though I think I was considered quite the problem child for quite a while. I later heard that he pulled another stupid truck on someone and went to jail for it. God knows I can’t prove that but I’d love to believe it.
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TSgt Sean LaPlante
Well, it sounds like it’s time to worry about yourself & your family. To hell with rest. Have a nice day.
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I was on the road March once and I stopped to tie my boots because one of them was loose and my first sergeant said what the fuck are you doing and I didn't realize it was him I just looked at the boots and thought it was another GI that I dislike and I said what the fuck does it look like I'm doing you asshole I'm time I fucking boots and he fucking snapped on me and I stood up and saw it was him and I fucking freak
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SPC (Join to see)
I was in basic training doing our final ruck march up "Suicide Hill". It's one of those hills that is like 45 degrees or steeper, and it is gravel. Well, I slipped, fell, nailed my kneecap on a sharp rock (by the time I woke up the next morning, my knee was swollen, bruised and you could see where the rock cut my knee). Keep in mind, I'm carrying a ruck that weighs at least 35 pounds and an M-16. As I'm trying to stand up, suddenly someone grabs my rucksack and starts dragging me forward, causing me to fall on my face, again. I wrench around to shake them loose, try to stand up again. On the third time, I finally start yelling, "Let F#*$ING GO!!" I hear someone say they are trying to help me get up, so I respond, "I'm trying to stand UP, stop dragging me FORWARD" Dumbass finally pulls UP on my rucksack, instead of forward, and lo and behold, it's one of my drill sgts, the one that no one likes. Now, keep in mind, at this point, I'm 17 years old, scared of my own shadow (it was another year before I had the confidence to tell a SPC to shove it because his E4 rank didn't give him disciplinary authority over me), and I was raised that disrespecting my elders warranted an ass beating. She gets up in my face as much as her short ass could, and yells at me to get moving. I give her the dirtiest look I could muster at 0200 after a 15 mile ruck march before moving back into the 'formation' (thank god it was the end, 20 feet and we shifted into a normal 4 column formation on hardtop) and limped my ass back to battalion. When we had to do the AAR where we wrote 3 things good, 3 things bad (anonymously), she got called out on ALL her bull. She was NOT a good drill sgt.
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SPC Randall PeQueen
I remember doing stuff like that... most of the time they will realize you didn't know and not be so hard. hahahahaha
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During my career as a Hospital Corpsman I had the pleasure of teaching the basic EMT program through paramedic level for the National Registry and having them test for the National Registry, as this was done in the evening on my time to those interested in learning. I was approved at the state level as an instructor and at the national level as an instructor. I was also certified by the American Red Cross as a Advanced Cardiac Life Support instructor. This apparently upset a few Nurse officers including the Chief Nurse (LtC) who ordered me into a meeting stating my programs final exam should be written by nurses. I asked her who wrote her college final exams? Those were written by her instructors thus allowing her to take the state boards certifying her as an RN. My final exam was approved by the State and a copy was sent to the national registry. On passing my program my students were authorized to take the National Registry. My percentage pass rate of my students was 95% overall. This meeting was brought to the attention of the Hospital Commander (Col) by a senior NCO, who informed the Chief Nurse to get off my back. Soon after I was moved to the nursing education office as NCOIC of nursing education under an RN Major. When I first arrived in that position, She informed me that she wouldn't let any of my students work to save her life if she needed it. My statement to her was that's too bad as that would reduce her chance for survival. Come to find out that the Chief Nurse had a favorite Airman who she wanted to take over and teach the program that I had established. Who ever said politics doesn't play a part of the military needs to take a good look before making any statements.
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SPC Kelly Grindstaff
When you got it you will Have a CMDR (Officer) or a Senior NCO as a Rabbi, junior people catch their eye, who are outstanding at what they do. Will start to get better assignments. Light Infantry but I had a Military License for anything except the 18 wheeler. I had already maxed all Awards and Promotion boards Top and the CO when they would come by instead of doing the general details, they would call me by my First name, off to the side, tell me what needed doing. It always was done what was needed LOL they just didn't want to know all the details sometimes :D. They knew I was a scrounger/fixer on some things. Think of the Guy from the Movie "Green Berets" "Peterson".
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TSgt Sean LaPlante
Oh I agree with you on the “politics”... I never figured out why politics ever got to the NCO level...
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MAJ Janice Campbell. BSN, RN, CNOR
Sadly, politics seems to infiltrate virtually every aspect of our lives. I am prior enlisted, then received my commission. An interesting conundrum, the enlisted people resented me and the officers said I didn't transition as an officer. I did, of course, but never lost sight of all the wonderful lessons learn as an NCO and became (I believe) a well-respected Officer. I treat all fairly and equitably, with dignity and respect regardless of rank, ethnicity or religious preference. My parents were my role models and the military only added to that journey. I will always be respectful, but that does not suggest that I always respect those in leadership position, there is a difference. One lesson learned is I do not have to "prove" to anyone the flaws of leadership, it is always in full display; let them sink their own career. Trust me, they will.
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There's a reason I'm wearing SGT stripes for the 3rd time after 13 years. We'll leave it at that
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SSG (Join to see)
Lol. You remind me of an NCO I once knew who 'bragged' about being every rank twice, from E-1 to E-6.
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SGT Brian Dimoff
SSG (Join to see) well... that's not far off. Looking back, it would have been nice to retire with a higher pay grade, I never did get my rocker back, but I have some great stories that also serve as a warning to others.
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When I was at Campbell we were on a brigade run, and a Maj and Ltc noticed a female running quite slower than the pack. Unbeknownst to them she was like 6+ months pregnant. As they ran by with zest and hooah, they tried to motivate her with, " come on! Run faster". To which she gave a banshee shrill retort, "I'm going as fucking fast as I can"! I've never seen fear and terror strike so quickly. They didn't say a word, just ran faster to get away. I laughed. She murdered.
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Once, as a brand new PA, I had just finished sickcall and had time to go to the gym. I got in my car and drove through the parking lot to get to the gym. The BDE CSM and his entourage stopped me to chew me out about driving in that area during PT. Since I was newly commissioned and had over 10 years enlisted behind me, I was, of course, standing at parade rest during his tirade. When he finally stopped to let me talk, I asked him, "Don't you think there's a more constructive way to inform the FNG that he's wrong?" That led to more yelling, finally, I'd had enough called him to attention, told him who I was and dismissed him. We exchanged salutes and went our separate ways. I had such angst while working out and then showered and went to my office and called the BN CSM to tell him what happened. I told him I was shitting my pants with worry about the Full Bird calling me to the carpet. The BN CSM just laughed and told me not to worry about it. After about a month, I finally relaxed. I attended quite a few staff meetings at the BDE level, not once did either of us ever discuss the incident. To this day, I don't really know who was right or wrong, but it makes me chuckle thinking about it today.
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SPC (Join to see)
And make sure that a chewing is warranted, rather than a professional conversation where the FNG is informed about OFFICIAL POLICY (not personal preferences).
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SPC Randall PeQueen
Reminds me of a story Colin Powel's son told of him...
He was once walking into the PX and saw a corporal who was standing there saluting a captain over and over and over again... Powel walked up and asked what was going on. The captain said "Sir this corporal failed to salute me, so I'm making him salute me 100 times".
Powel told the captain "That's fine... but you make darn sure to return the salute every single time... the exchange of salutes is a sign of mutual respect.
He was once walking into the PX and saw a corporal who was standing there saluting a captain over and over and over again... Powel walked up and asked what was going on. The captain said "Sir this corporal failed to salute me, so I'm making him salute me 100 times".
Powel told the captain "That's fine... but you make darn sure to return the salute every single time... the exchange of salutes is a sign of mutual respect.
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