Posted on Mar 30, 2016
COL Strategic Plans Chief
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Ralph Peters, the loud and opinionated Fox News military analyst posits that the Army has leveraged its war-fighting ability for political correctness and soft handed measures to appease its civilian leaders and the social norms of today. Is he right? http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/03/23/ralph-peters-how-us-can-defeat-isis-radical-islam
Posted in these groups: Iraq war WarfareDanger political correctness 300x300 Political Correctness
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
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COL (Join to see) I don't think there is any question that the military is becoming too PC. While I am certainly a proponent of good order and discipline, nondiscrimination, and the military representing the social norms of our society, I am not a supporter of the liberal social engineering of the military that causes a reduction in readiness or negatively impacts the ability to accomplish the mission.
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
COL Jean (John) F. B.
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CPT L S - There is nothing that MSgt Mike Mikulski said that is untrue.
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
COL Jean (John) F. B.
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CPT L S Once again, you spin the truth. There is no proof that Alexander was bisexual, only conjecture.
http://www.writersreps.com/feature.aspx?FeatureID=16
also
http://www.forbes.com/sites/booked/2011/02/10/alexander-the-great-gay-or-straight/#2e6034d8e118
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
COL Jean (John) F. B.
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MSgt Mike Mikulski - Reminds me of a story I heard a few years ago...
A CSM was asked why he had retired and he stated, "When I first joined the Army, being homosexual was illegal in the military. Then, when Clinton was elected, it became optional. Now that Obama is president, I am getting out before it becomes mandatory." :-)
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COL Jean (John) F. B.
COL Jean (John) F. B.
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MSgt Mike Mikulski - I agree, buddy. Too many things in today's military that I would have issues with. I do not question LGBT personnel's patriotism or ability to serve, but my gut just tells me that it can't help but be disruptive and that it was better to keep DADT, not allow serving "in the open". Not a "progressive" attitude, I know, but, to me, it is a realistic one.
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LCDR Sales & Proposals Manager Gas Turbine Products
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Sir-I think most of us would agree that 'PC' has damaged every aspect of American culture-to include our warfighting capability. However, I sincerely believe that when it comes down to it, there's still a lot of the traits that served us well from Lexington and Concord to Khe Sanh inside the U.S. military.
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1SG Civil Affairs Specialist
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War is the application of power to destroy your enemies will to fight. There are a lot of ways to do that, from killing people and breaking things to destroying infrastructure to blockades to propaganda.
"PC" leadership takes some of those tools off the table, and that has a number of consequences:
1. It makes the conflict last longer, costing more lives and treasure.
2. It muddies the water on desired end state, an absolute toxin to a military mission.
3. It gives the enemy who is not bound by such restrictions local superiority in the areas we do not want to engage them in. The direness of this is borne out in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and Libya.

In order to beat these ISIS bastards, we need to break their will. They are laughing at us.
That doesn't mean bluster about "carpet bombing" and the like. It means that if our political leaders feel it is in the interests of the United States to give them hell, we give them HELL.
They need no hope of winning.
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MAJ FAO - Europe
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What do you mean by "PC leadership"? Following the law of land warfare? Abiding by our obligations in international treaties?
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SPC James Dollins
SPC James Dollins
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Amen Top!
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1SG Civil Affairs Specialist
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MAJ (Join to see) - You know exactly what I mean by PC leadership.
We do not need to compromise our values to win.
I would argue the half-assing that we've done on recent conflicts is worse, since it has only led to destabilization in a half-dozen nations and much more humanitarian issues than would have been the case of we'd have left it alone or gone in hard.
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SMSgt Thor Merich
SMSgt Thor Merich
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Well said Top.
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Has the military become too PC to fight the nation's wars?
MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca
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Next they'll take away the real weapons and give our boys and girls paintball guns! God forbid we actually hurt somebody, least of all the enemy, while waging war.
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SrA Edward Vong
SrA Edward Vong
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MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca
Sir, I prefer airsoft. They travel further and move faster!

On a lighter note, wouldn't it be great if war was just a big paintball match? Loser gets to be branded losing country and no one dies?
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca , we aren't supposed to hurt the enemy in a war?
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SrA Edward Vong
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Not a fan of the title "Warfare is about Death and Destruction". While true, the general idea of war or conflict is to stop the enemy from gaining a strategic advantage. Death and destruction is the unfortunate event that comes from that.

The article doesn't get into specifics of what PC they mean. Maybe they can elaborate. I hear PC being thrown around a lot, but examples shown are usually so extreme and from a small part that doesn't matter.
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SrA Edward Vong
SrA Edward Vong
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SSG John Thornton
That's how I feel too. Like I said, there are a few extreme circumstances that I see here and there, but ultimately, big picture wise, we're all too smart for that.
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COL Strategic Plans Chief
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The general idea of war is to impose the will of one nation over another. Strategic advantage is gained through stationing of forces prior to war. It is gained from economic capacity and capability. It is gained from diplomatic efforts. It is gained from information dominance. War...is about imposing the will of the United States on a nation or entity that is a threat to our national interests. The imposition of that will is brought about by the destruction of personnel and equipment, the seizing of significant terrain or infrastructure or the threat of both. I posit that you are confusing pre-conflict end states with conflict end states on a theater strategic and Strategic level.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
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The military is not a place for social engineering experiments. Why are we having people going to court because they can't have a beard, wear "their own head dress"? Our military is a reflection of our political and civilian influence - getting more liberal all the time. What ever happened to doing what your told, when your told and how your told? What ever happened to the response of - a hand salute followed by "Yes Sir / Ma'am ?
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COL Strategic Plans Chief
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SGM Mikel Dawson; I concur. We have lost the art of subverting the self into the whole. It has had and will continue to have deleterious effects. The individualism of the Soldier must be subsumed by the requirements and missions of the unit.
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TSgt Marco McDowell
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My uncles and cousins say the same about Vietnam. The key word is political. When the policy makers get too far involved that it hamstrings the warfighter, you then have issues. It's not the military that's PC, it's the civil authority that's PC and thus a trickle down.
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MCPO Roger Collins
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I seriously doubt that Peters was speaking of the performance of our fighters, but the limits placed on them. Our people have performed at a stellar performance, given decisions by the administration.
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COL Strategic Plans Chief
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MCPO Roger Collins, agreed. He definitely focuses his attention on the policies and politics that have created the military we have today and the way we "fight" wars. He is arguing that we don't have the capability to fight wars any longer (or we are on the brink of doing so) due to the continued erosion of the "warrior spirit" in our fighting forces.
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1LT A. Uribe
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I think it has, I still remember my first Battalion Commanders weekly formation. He was a hard charging tanker, if anyone would state some of the things he would say today, they'd be a shit storm everywhere.
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SrA Edward Vong
SrA Edward Vong
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1LT A. Uribe
When it boils down to it, it's all fun and games until someone gets hurt. Coming from an aircraft maintenance perspective, there are not that many women in the community, so as you can expect, there is a lot of "woman jokes". Usually the few women in the career field go along with the joke, and sometimes you get that one that just feel uncomfortable with it.

Is it wrong for her to feel uncomfortable about it? Should she bring it up? That is a question many bring up.
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1LT A. Uribe
1LT A. Uribe
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In the combat arms field there were a lot "Gina" jokes, or references when one couldn't keep up.
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SSG Robbie McBride
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As I read through all the opinions, his point is made load and clear. Every one is picking up their "individual" concern! Our politicians are more concerned with public opinion opposed to defeating the enemy! As far as PC, it appears today's soldier has a little Lawyer sitting on their shoulder. This causes one to second guess everything they do. Being indecisive is the demise of success!
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COL Strategic Plans Chief
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There are quite a few "shoulder lawyers." That being said, there are a few warriors who still speak their minds. Unfortunately, those warriors are being weeded out due to their inability to be trusted in front of a microphone or in public. To continue to rise, you have to keep that inside and speak in a controlled fashion. There is merit in controlling what you say and when you say it, especially when it comes to political commentary, but when it comes to warfare I believe brutal honesty is the best policy. That is why after Battalion Command, I will likely be a non-select to Brigade Command. I didn't contain my speech as a Battalion Commander and offended a few people.
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