Posted on Jan 2, 2014
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SPC,<br><br>Is this a post about speech or an advertisement for your political opinion? The fundamental problem with your statement is the inability to objectively define "what's right". Unless that can be done, the sitting president will always be criticized. Until recent years, government assistance programs have always been expected to serve as the last resort for support of indigent people. In the past, our elected leaders recognized redistribution is unsustainable over the long-term. Since the adoption of and loss of control over the Keynesian economic theory, progressives attitudes in our government have continually increased the role of government assistance to the current point where is has become a primary source of support (the ACA). <br><br>Soldiers having a conversation regarding public and elected officials is free speech, and protected. As long as the individual is not participating in a political event, wearing the uniform, there is no issue. <br><br>The best thing that can be done for individuals critical of elected leaders is to ask questions that make them see the validity of their opinion. That only works, though, if you know what you are talking about. <br>
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CPT Daniel Walk, M.B.A.
SPC Buck,<br><br>The idea of sparking a deliberate conversation is good. The issue, IMNSHO, is that you took a side. Sparking a debate, you must remain neutral. Either by using examples of bad behavior from both sides, or by using none at all. <br><br>That said, it's a reasonable question. The key to the answer will always be the language used. It would not be unethical or considered a violation to criticize the President. The line will be drawn at the point that derogatory name-calling and other personal disparaging becomes the focal point. There is no litmus test for disrespect. <br><br>One also has to consider the distance. While the President is the CinC, are the comments of company grade officers, NCOs, and Soldiers likely to have an impact on public opinion. No. Unless that individual is wearing the uniform when they make the comments and are attempting to represent the DA.<br>
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SSgt (Join to see)
<p>I think it was further out of line that a PO1 called this a sausage factory. This is what has got our society in trouble, a fluidity that escapes responsibility. As I have mentioned more than once, the abuse President GW Bush was wrong and not called out as it should have been and this includes Congress.</p><p><br></p><p>And not disagreeing with you either.</p>
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SSgt (Join to see)
And we hear almost no one really acquit themselves of doing one thing as it pertains to Presidents Bush and Obama. Unless speech is aggressive then the little weenies who turn guys in are not honorable. Do unto others and this clearly has not been followed consistently.
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SGT Earl Curtis
I enjoyed reading your remarks about economics. I am in essential agreement with you as Keynes does go too far. As a conservative, I like the free market. Concerning the depression, he did say something right. Traditional economists argued against deficit spending and government intervention in the economy. They pointed out that in the long run the economy would correct itself. Keynes famously replied, “In the long run, we are all dead.” Keynes wanted to relieve the tremendous suffering a depression caused and avoid a possible communist or fascist revolution.
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<p>SPC Buck</p><p> </p><p>Here is the direct pull from article 88 of the UCMJ</p><p> </p><p>“Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the
Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military
department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of
any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or
present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.” </p><p> </p><p>And article 91</p><p> </p><p>“Any warrant officer or enlisted member who—
</p><p>(1) strikes or assaults a warrant officer, non-commissioned officer, or petty
officer, while that officer is in the execution of his office;
<p>(2) willfully disobeys the lawful order of a warrant officer, noncommissioned
officer, or petty officer; or
<p>(3) treats with contempt or is disrespectful in language or deportment toward
a warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer while that officer
is in the execution of his office; shall be punished as a court-martial may
direct.” </p><p> </p><p>This should cover what is the standard. Without standards the military is nothing. We all took an oath to serve, it does not matter what our personal beliefs are on the matters. We are here to serve.</p>
Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military
department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of
any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or
present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.” </p><p> </p><p>And article 91</p><p> </p><p>“Any warrant officer or enlisted member who—
</p><p>(1) strikes or assaults a warrant officer, non-commissioned officer, or petty
officer, while that officer is in the execution of his office;
<p>(2) willfully disobeys the lawful order of a warrant officer, noncommissioned
officer, or petty officer; or
<p>(3) treats with contempt or is disrespectful in language or deportment toward
a warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer while that officer
is in the execution of his office; shall be punished as a court-martial may
direct.” </p><p> </p><p>This should cover what is the standard. Without standards the military is nothing. We all took an oath to serve, it does not matter what our personal beliefs are on the matters. We are here to serve.</p>
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SGT (Join to see)
So it basically says that if we protest our lives being thrown away for political expediency we are to be tried as criminals and lay down and die.
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SPC George Clarke
11 yrs. Later and we have the DNI going on national television and talk about Obamas treasonous acts. Seems like a pretty big deal to me.
I guess my observations back then were on point. Not bad for a SPC.
I guess my observations back then were on point. Not bad for a SPC.
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I think it's simple. Take out the President's name and replace it with yours. Would you find it acceptable, disrespectful? If so then handle it.
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SFC (Join to see)
Simple and true, yes. If I did that then yes, it would be acceptable for we would be reading a totally different novel, not some over the top fantasy. I don't do vacations and we would have a budget that all American Households already on their own have to adhere too. For if you don't have it you don't spend it. It boils down to recociling ones check-book.
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PO1 Mark Koenig
SFC (Join to see) - I am not sure what that meant. "I don't do vaccinations?" How did you manage to get through bootcamp with that spirit?
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If you are still serving, be it Active, Reserve or Guard, you are subject to UCMJ action for speaking out against the POTUS. You are not allowed to campaign or show political affliliation. If you are a veteran, who has completed your service, it is your responibility to speak out for those soldiers who cannot. <div><br></div><div>Having served under Clinton and Obama administrations, I couldn't wait to use my 1st Ammendment rights after retiring. Anyone remember the "Do more with less" mantra? What a freaking joke!</div><div><br></div><div>Serve honorably. Do your job to the best of your ability. Roll with the punches, and keep your opinions to yourself and let those of us who are no longer UCMJ bound, but still oath bound, to do the talking. </div><div><br></div>
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TSgt Phillip L.
Just because you can...doesn't mean you should. Reserve and Guard members should treat their service with all the respect and responsibility of an active member. You don't stop being guard away from your guard duties. I too served during the clinton era, and my career was greatly affected by the downsizing and cuts of obama's decisions. I lost a commission appointment due to downsizing and position cuts. Now that I'm out, I see it as a responsibility to defend and support currently serving veterans. Active and reserve/guard. We did our time, and others supported us during that time. Now we'll support others and do our best to keep them equipped to serve.<br><br>
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SGT (Join to see)
The UCMJ: So it basically says that if we protest our lives being thrown away for political expediency we are to be tried as criminals and lay down and die.
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SPC Lyle Montgomery
Maj John Drake, I agree. Having been out of the Army for over 50 years, I feel that it is my right and duty to critize any president or any officer that I see fit. Its the first ammendent rights that I have. To hell with the UCMJ.
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I've always been taught and strongly believe that when it comes to things such as religion and politics, you keep your views and opinions to yourself when around your subordinates, or others that may find you influential, so not to influence them one way or another. <div><br></div><div>Expressing your negative views and opinions in front of your subordinates is always unprofessional; especially about someone within their... YOUR chain of command. </div><div><br></div><div>People look up to us when we wear this uniform. As leaders and military personnel, it reflects poorly on us and our service when we lose our military bearing and professional customs and courtesies. Whether it be a comment about the president or how we present ourselves in public, we should always be professional so to bring credit upon ourselves our service and our country. </div>
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The military is supposed to be apolitical for a reason and has regulations that require it. Doesn't matter what party you may align with, while in the military keep your mouth closed and avoid any activities that are political in nature. When you get out you can go wild with politics if you wish, but not sure why anyone wants to.
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SFC Randy Hellenbrand
But when you lie several times a day to the people and then try to overthrow our government?? Hell, I never heard as many lies out of Nixon or Ronnie while I served as I got out of Trump in his first month in office.
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MCPO Roger Collins
I wasn’t very concerned about politics, except when it came to pay, when it came to politics. Now, even though retired, I am accountable to the UCMJ. Fortunately, retirees are seldom recalled due to political opinions. I totally go with the 1st Amendmet.
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
MCPO Roger Collins Somewhere in this train I learned that since I'm over 70 I'm no longer subject to recall. With you on the 1st Amendment.
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MCPO Roger Collins
Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen Got a reference, I’ve also researched this and the relevant point is drawing a retirement check. More fuel for the fire.
https://fedsoc.org/commentary/fedsoc-blog/the-prosecution-of-military-retirees-under-the-uniform-code-of-military-justice
https://fedsoc.org/commentary/fedsoc-blog/the-prosecution-of-military-retirees-under-the-uniform-code-of-military-justice
The Prosecution of Military Retirees Under the Uniform Code of Military Justice
On November 20, 2020, Judge Richard J. Leon launched what might prove to be a seminal attack on mili...
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Disgraceful and Against all the regulations that were in place while I served. Yes you are an American Citizen and allowed to express your opinion in the voting booth but NO you are not allowed to express poliitical opinions other than that, and the oath I took was to the "President and the Officers Appointed over me". All is well and good once you retire or Complete your Service. Being I am retired now, I am free to say that I was a Compassionate Conservative in the day, voted for Regan and Dole. Now a Liberal Democrat that Campaigned and Voted for President Obama both times.
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Suspended Profile
CPO Mark Gallup you clearly have a reading comp issue. I never said a DOD directive did. My comment stated there IS a DOD directive that backs your rights as a military member you dolt
Suspended Profile
CPO Mark Gallup nope. But making Cw3 in the army sure was. You arr adding to your issues. Not only reading comp is an issue for you, but writing to get yiur point across as well. Do they give CPO to everyone now?
Suspended Profile
CPO Mark Gallup blahaha, I love when I get that type of reaction. Show your lacking in most departments. I didn't realize the navy promoted window kickers, but your are proof. Boy was I wrong.
TSgt Baran Anthony Andrew K.
I agree. Code of Conduct #1: I am an American fighting man. I am prepared to give my life in the defense of my country. As a serviceman or woman, we should only express our political preferences in the ballot booth
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In Short, yes it should be allowed, as WE ALL raised our hands and swore to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, against ALL enemies, foreign or DOMESTIC, that is our first and foremost duty. Then second, we are to obey all Lawful Orders, by the President of the United States and all officers appointed over us. The President is an individual who has openly stated that the Constitution is a "hindrance to his agenda", and has violated the Constitution on numerous occasions, and has committed acts of sedition against our Constitution, our service members, our citizens, and our allies. In the Founding Document of the United States it states: <div>"<span style="background-color: rgb(233, 230, 226); color: rgb(70, 62, 62); font-family: 'Times New Roman', Times, serif;">We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.</span><span style="background-color: rgb(233, 230, 226); color: rgb(70, 62, 62); font-family: 'Times New Roman', Times, serif;"> </span>" Barrack Obama and his Marxist ideology is a threat to our Rights of Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness, as his repeated exercising extra-constitutional powers by issuance of Executive Orders to circumvent the Constitutional Powers given exclusively to the Congress, and more specifically the House of Representatives, along with selectively enforcing whatever laws he desires and ignores others, for political reasoning. That has proven his being a threat to the stability and credibility of the United States of America. We, have a duty to uphold our oaths and defend the Constitution, and to enforce our Rights granted in the Declaration of Independence, and to remove him, and all of his minions and to restore the Constitution of the United States as the ultimate limiter of the Powers of the National Government, and the protection of the Rights of the States and the Citizens of the United States. Anyone who states that we cannot or are not allowed to do that, should never have ever served in our military, as such individuals does not understand the duties of the military for the protection of our nation. We are not a political-partisan tool, we are a Constitutional and National Defense tool. </div>
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Cpl James Kelly
The only President that I heard saying the Constitution was a hindrance was trump. And he wanted to be a dictator/king, doing whatever he pleased, without any consequences.
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Cpl James Kelly
SSgt James Stanley trump is the only President in my lifetime who has thought about declaring martial law. He had many in his circle saying he should do just that. And with his mentality, I’m truly surprised that he didn’t.
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Cpl James Kelly
SPC Lyle Montgomery And just why wouldn’t Black people not be racist? After living in a country that actually had laws to prevent POC standing on an equal footing, and still to this day have the same mindset, it seems that white people are the cause of Blacks being racist.
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Personally I find that people often confuse opinion with intention. The former is perfectly okay, while the latter can be grounds for punitive action. As my command's social media content manager, I often train Sailors to tread carefully when expressing their opinion in an open forum. <div><br></div><div>Food for thought when expressing your opinion:</div><div><br></div><div>Using the 2012 social media scandal surrounding Sgt. Gary Stein as a case study, we can break down what led to his dismissal from the service as follows...</div><div><br></div><div>Opinion + Intent = Discharge</div><div><br></div><div>"I highly dislike (President) Obama and I refuse to obey his unlawful orders."</div><div><br></div><div>I highly dislike (President) Obama [OPINION -- one that is shared by many, it seems] and [the line that clearly divides the statement] I refuse to obey his unlawful orders [INTENT -- to purposefully violate a UCMJ article]. </div><div><br></div><div>To put it simply, it's one thing to say you don't like the man, even if you call him names (though that would just be tasteless and tacky in my opinion), but to cross the line where you begin to state intention however oblivious you may be in the act is where people are finding themselves in trouble. </div><div><br></div><div>TL;DR -- be cautious in HOW you communicate your opinion. You're entitled to do so, but be respectful and don't cross the line into what you will or will not do because the action (or lack thereof) can be perceived as intent to violate.</div>
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"<font color="#4d4d4d"><span style="font-size: 1 [login to see] 77148px;">he's trying to do what's right" <=== Are you out of your damn mind! Chairman O has done nothing but try to destroy the U.S. Constitution and America alike!</span></font>
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