Posted on Mar 16, 2018
How do you handle a disrespectful junior soldier that doesn't belong to you?
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I recently encountered a junior soldier who wore a patch I didn't recognize who was walking around outside in a VERY ate-up uniform. I showed him my ID card and identified myself and explained to him where he was wrong and asked him to correct the deficiencies. At which point, the soldier told me to go f*** myself and then tried to fight me. Now, the grunt in me got really excited and couldn't wait to wall-to-wall this young soldier, but the professional in me simply wouldn't allow it. So I asked what unit the soldier belonged to, to which he responded "To your f***ing mama, b****." Now RP Leaders, how would you suggest I go about rectifying this situation, or should I simply leave it be and let the Karma catch up with him?
**ADMIN NOTE** I still have not been able to find the patch and it's corresponding unit, so I have no way of finding this soldier's Command.
**ADMIN NOTE** I still have not been able to find the patch and it's corresponding unit, so I have no way of finding this soldier's Command.
Disrespect
Military bearing
DA Pam 670-1
Leadership
Morals
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 238
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Next time take a picture if you can and then you can find his command and report the incident. But more than likely the command, if you find them, won’t do $hit. He learned to have that attitude from somewhere and I bet it wasn’t from his drill sergeant. I ran into a simulator situation when I PCSed from Ft Bragg to Ft Sam Houston. A JR Soldier was about to park illegally in a parking area. I told him I was about to pull out and he could take my legal spot. He said ok and got in his car. I pulled away, went around the corner and circled back. He was still negotiating the illegal spot so I had him get out of his car and give me his supervisor’s name and location. I made sure he stood at parade rest while I told him what a dirtbag he was and that he needed to follow the orders of NCOs. He gave me some excuse that the MPs are ok with parking next to the no parking sign. I first stopped by the MP and they confirmed that they are perfectly ok with not doing their job. I let them have it too. Fat a$$ SSG! Then I went to his SFC PS where he went on to tell me that he was at Ft Bragg and that things don’t run the same at Ft Sam. Didn’t care that his Soldier failed to oney a lawful order from an NCO. So after a lot of verbal judo where I let him know that the reason Ft Sam is not like Bragg is because of the low quality of NCOs at Ft Sam. So, even if you do the right thing you will find other “leaders” that just don’t have the same level of respect for their responsibilities as an NCO. So you keep being you and police up your area and if all other NCOs do the same we can get these dirtbags trained the right way. Good luck.
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SGT Robert Schaefer
How about if it is a 1st SGT with his hands in his pockets? I was that the store General Jackson and he was just standing there in his uniform with his hands in his pockets. Right in front of PVT'S & SPC'S. So I walked up to him and said you might want to take your hands out of your pockets because lower ranking soldiers are here. And he gave me an attitude.
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SP6 Guy Slater
I'm a former 11B/31M (No longer existent, Signal) and wound up at Sam after 8 yrs of service (I was medevaced there from Vietnam, but I don't count that, I really do not remember a crap load of my time there then.) I got hit with the same shit, "well Saarge, Fort Sam aint like the rest of the Army."
Had one douchebag PFC give me some lip and went thru chain of command for a write up; refusing to obey the orders of a superior enlisted member (SEM) (I was not an NCO, having been laterally converted to SP), disrespect to a SEM, and AWOL (not at his appointed place, at the appointed time in the proper uniform, how the hell he could have been as filthy as he was wearing hospital whites, IDK!) Saw his 1SG and the above was the response I got. I'm really "old Army" in attitude.
After duty hours, I swung by his barracks and "invited" him outside, where I proceeded to explain to him why he really should obey the orders of a SP5, even one not in his chain, why telling a SP5 to go f**k himself was really not a great idea, and that low-quarters that were a filthy as his, along with as filthy a uniform, was not conducive to the health and well being of the patients he was attending.
He reported me to his 1SG and the MP's (who took the report and did nothing.) 1SG took the matter to the hospital CSM, who called me in. In front of the 1SG, I told the CSSM what, when and why, and the lack of respect I got from the 1SG and the failure of that young soldier's chain to provide guidance. CSM took about three seconds to blow his top...at the 1SG.
I was later called back in to the CSM's office and told what corrective action he had taken, which he didn't really need to do.
I was assigned to the Burn Unit and did not come under the command of BAMC and the CSM. About 5 years later, said CSM was MY CSM.
Sometimes ya just gotta take things into your own hands, and let the chips fall where they may.
Had one douchebag PFC give me some lip and went thru chain of command for a write up; refusing to obey the orders of a superior enlisted member (SEM) (I was not an NCO, having been laterally converted to SP), disrespect to a SEM, and AWOL (not at his appointed place, at the appointed time in the proper uniform, how the hell he could have been as filthy as he was wearing hospital whites, IDK!) Saw his 1SG and the above was the response I got. I'm really "old Army" in attitude.
After duty hours, I swung by his barracks and "invited" him outside, where I proceeded to explain to him why he really should obey the orders of a SP5, even one not in his chain, why telling a SP5 to go f**k himself was really not a great idea, and that low-quarters that were a filthy as his, along with as filthy a uniform, was not conducive to the health and well being of the patients he was attending.
He reported me to his 1SG and the MP's (who took the report and did nothing.) 1SG took the matter to the hospital CSM, who called me in. In front of the 1SG, I told the CSSM what, when and why, and the lack of respect I got from the 1SG and the failure of that young soldier's chain to provide guidance. CSM took about three seconds to blow his top...at the 1SG.
I was later called back in to the CSM's office and told what corrective action he had taken, which he didn't really need to do.
I was assigned to the Burn Unit and did not come under the command of BAMC and the CSM. About 5 years later, said CSM was MY CSM.
Sometimes ya just gotta take things into your own hands, and let the chips fall where they may.
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COL (Join to see)
No, for lying and not listening to an NCO. Work on your reading comprehension. MAJ (Join to see)
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SSG Jesse Denton
If a retired weekender may be allowed: I haven't spent that much time on bases or posts, but I spend a lot of time doing safety evaluation and consulting in the business world. What you are talking about is the culture of the place where you are. Ft. Bragg and Ft. Sam Houston are great examples of Army post where I would expect to find the most extreme differences in culture. At Ft. Bragg, Campbell or Benning I would would expect a culture of "Where is the dragon, I'm going to strangle him to death, I don't care if he breathes fire, I have an asbestoes jock on." At Ft. Sam Houston, I would expect the incoming doctors and nurses to get a bit of "Okay ladies and gentlemen, we are here to teach you about being in the Army. It's not reallly as bad and tough as you have heard." But, culture from the commanding general down determines behavior in life on the post as it does in business. Just my $0.02.
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SPC Bryan Gustafson
SPC Chris Ison Your point is well taken. I misunderstood the point you were trying to make.
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SPC Edward Carpenter
A unit patch is not stolen valor, medals/awards are. When I was stationed at Ft. Sam Houston I frequently switched my unit patch in order to move about the post freely and not tied to a "Battle Buddy". I was already stationed at WRAMC so I would tear off the training unit patch and put on my AMEDD/MEDDAC patch with the corresponding badge/credentials. When I went through training at Ft. Benning in 1986 we didn't have "Battle Buddy's, sounds gay if you ask me.
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SP6 Guy Slater
SP Daviu has made one hell of a point concerning what has gone on at Fort Sam Houston. It's not really "stolen valor" but...
In the late 70's there was a "soldier" going through the Basic Combat Medics course (91B at the time.) Squared away troop, on time, knew his assignments, kept his uniform neat, and always respectful.
There was just one problem. He was a civilian! He made it all the way to graduation before he was caught. Seems like he was unfit for military duty for some reason.
I say that if he wanted to be a soldier that badly, someone should have found an exception to policy and let him enlist.
In the late 70's there was a "soldier" going through the Basic Combat Medics course (91B at the time.) Squared away troop, on time, knew his assignments, kept his uniform neat, and always respectful.
There was just one problem. He was a civilian! He made it all the way to graduation before he was caught. Seems like he was unfit for military duty for some reason.
I say that if he wanted to be a soldier that badly, someone should have found an exception to policy and let him enlist.
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SP6 Guy Slater
SP Edward Carpenter, then you were out of uniform, and technically AWOL (proper place, proper time, proper uniform.) Wearing the patch of a unit you are not assigned to IS being out of uniform. Call me a prickly SOB, if you wish, I'll admit to it.
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Sometimes you just have to choose your battles and let the dirtbag's drown in their own karma.
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SP6 Guy Slater
Good by me. As a caveat, you're the man on active duty, not me. I am, in general, speaking of what I did over 33 years ago. Much of what is said in this post is foreign to me (take a picture.) It didn't exist back then. Different times, different solutions.
Stay well.
Stay well.
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SFC (Join to see)
SP6 Guy Slater true. And tha ks for your feedback. I just believe that different approaches are necessary for different individuals. What works for one person doesnt apply to all. Not saying I wouldn't report the guy mentioned in the situation. I just wouldn't stand their arguing seeing whi has the biggest balls until he cools down. Certain soldiers are stuck in their ways and it's easier to not waste time with them and just report to higher.
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Old Army response here. 1974 I was a SSG in Nurnburg. One morning I decided to go to the chow hall for breakfast. Standing in the line outside the mess hall, there was a SP4 in front of me with his hat on lopsided, jacket unbuttoned and hands in his pockets. Looking like a complete slob. I instructed him to take his hands out of his pockets, put his hat on straight and button his jacket. He told me to go fuck myself and stated that he had less than 30 days to go in my fucking Army and furthermore he worked in personnel and had access to my personnel files and could create some problems for me. I informed him that: Number 1 - he did not have access to my personnel records because they were at my HQs in Augsburg. Number 2 - He was making a threat to a NCO and after I finished with him he would have 6 months and 30 days to go in my fucking Army. Number 3 - If he did not take his hands out of his pockets immediately, I would personally break both of his arms removing them. He looked rather shocked, put his hat on straight, buttoned his jacket, took his hands out of his pockets and decided he did not want any breakfast and departed. I am sure you could not get away with that in today's Army.
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SGT Philip Keys
Augsburg was the best place ever, loved it so much, then got sent to Bragg. Got out asap after that.
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If this encounter was off base, I agree with SPC Jovani Daviu, that this scumbag was not in the military, especially with a patch that you do not recognize.
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Sgt (Join to see)
SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" - Thank you friend! I am glad that our "GEN" gone, and also glad to see PV2 O'Brien go. I appreciate your hard work keeping RallyPoint cleaned up.
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Unfortunately there isn't a whole lot you can do immediately; just follow up with the Soldier's CoC. If you get pushback from a FLL, just keep going up the chain. Eventually there will be so much heat, leaders will be forced to do their jobs. I wouldn't leave it to karma, this idiot will probably be a CSM some day...
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I think that the lad might have a close encounter with my size 9 1/2W boot.
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SPC (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see), he came very dangerously close to ending up on the wrong side of mine. But I did my best to exercise restraint.
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1SG (Join to see)
SPC (Join to see) - You did well to exercise restraint, and I commend you for doing so.
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PO3 Eric Kerns
Do like the USMC and take your blouse off and head to the tree line. Or go to the px buy the same rank , put it on and go back and find his azz. I’ve seen that done in the USMC as well.
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SPC (Join to see)
MSG Frank Kapaun, unfortunately, after having that mentality growing up in a SF household (a product of 3SFG), I have had to learn that on this side of the fence, we can't handle such things the Operator way. If only....
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For starters, wall to wall is out of the question - has been even before my time. Physical contact or even raising your voice is nothing more than a sign of weakness.
Did you not photo the Soldier or patch? With all the cross training taking place these days on each base - it may be a lost cause. As a SPC especially if you’re one who is in a TL role, it’s tough to get that respect but also don’t go out and seek it.
I can clearly see this even if it was reported being swept aside because of the rank alone and the validation to it.
Did you not photo the Soldier or patch? With all the cross training taking place these days on each base - it may be a lost cause. As a SPC especially if you’re one who is in a TL role, it’s tough to get that respect but also don’t go out and seek it.
I can clearly see this even if it was reported being swept aside because of the rank alone and the validation to it.
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LCDR (Join to see)
While I agree that wall-to-wall is not doable today, I strongly disagree that a harsh tone is a sign of weakness. Communication takes many forms and failure to consider each for its own strength is folly.
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SGT Philip Keys
This is why the military isn't what it used to be. I'm thinking this clown wasn't in the military. Screaming in the face of this POS is far from weakness. Jeez don't want to hurt his feelings?
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I wouldn't worry about it. If he's a soldier he's a piece of shit and it'll catch up to him, if he's not it'll still catch up to him. Either way it's not worth risking what you've worked yo obtain.
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CPT William Jones
That catching up to them is part of an NCO or officers job. If you see a problem you are supposed to do something about it.
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