How is it possible that the federal government, NSA, and FBI can't crack an iPhone, but they think Apple can?

After all of this commotion, Hillary may receive an iPhone from Bill at her inauguration!

That is like a bomb with a booby trap. One simply needs to disconnect the booby trap first. I can't imagine it is that hard for highly trained experts.

FBI wants apple to create a custom firmware
and install it using their secret certificate. The firmware will disable the 10 try rule, allow passcode to be input remotely and circumvent the 80ms delay after inputting the passcode incorrectly. The question will be who will control it? What will prevent authoritarian governments from compelling Apple to give them the code? This will not be limited to Apple, next will be Google. It's always more complicated

This is the FBI we are talking about here. G-men have been using technical means to find child predators and internet thieves for decades. I suspect this is more about setting a precedent than it is about technical capability.

CSM David Heidke That's funny you think the Government is capable enough to be incapable. Almost all of the individuals are contractors not GS employees, due to the incompetency issues.

MSgt Kurt Woodward - I have no problem with Individuals. I have issue with Organizations. "There are no good or bad Organizations. Only those with Strong or Weak Oversight [sic]." I think most PEOPLE (Individuals) are inherently good, however I also think they will follow "policy" without thinking of the ramifications (nth order effects). As such, we must rely on the BAD examples (abuses of Power) when making a determination as to whether to trust an organization with more Power.

In the case of the Government (et al), and Civil Rights, the number of violations is "too many" to give them an "inch of rope" (to hang us with).

In 2014 Mr.Comey publicly stated that the level of Encryption available to the Citizen would potential hinder DoJ efforts. In 2015-2016 he is asking for the exact thing he proposed in 2014... Call me a cynic, but when someone says they don't want the Private Citizen to have phone Encryption in 2014, and then ORDERS Apple to create a backdoor into said phone Encryption in 2016... I'm going to assume they don't have my best interests at heart but are working on a "2 year campaign" for malicious reasons.

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS - I am not sure what the big deal is. Currently, the police need a search warrant to view someone's phone (unless they provide consent). the FBI would still need a search warrant and comply with the law to view someone's phone.

SMSgt Thor Merich Two major issues:

1) The very existence of the capability creates Privacy Concerns. Apple built the current OS to prevent exactly what the FBI is requesting. Having a door with the best lock in the world is useless if everyone can just bypass it.

2) The "compelled" nature of the order to build a capability that does not currently exist. Should the Government be able to demand that you make something, not just take something that already exists. Especially if it is counter to your business model? Apple sells Security. The FBI is mandating that Apple make "Anti-Security" items which will be USED AGAINST Apple's customers.

Having a Warrant is great. But it's not a magic wand to make a citizen do something that is counter to their own self-interest. It just allows an item in your possession to be searched legally.

of COURSE it isn't just one device. http://techcrunch.com/2016/02/23/with-12-other-active-cases-the-fbi-cant-claim-that-its-just-about-one-iphone/?ncid=rss&cps=gravity_1730_ [login to see] 14357192

Of course they do.

Yep

SSG Ryan R., I have heard it said by IT types that it is possible to install a new update to the OS without needing the password; the new OS would not erase the data after 10 unsuccessful attempts at the password. I have no idea if this is possible.

It did occur to me however that it might be possible to remove the memory chip and install it in a different iPhone to read it. The forensic scientists have done wonders reading supposedly destroyed hard drives when the information was important enough - like damaged black box recorders.

Capt Seid Waddell - Hard drive forensics is like hacking - the more resources (and money) you have the easier it is for larger tasks.

The phone records are public. The phone itself is publicly owned. Any data on the device would be public as well, and it is in evidence in a crime. Yet, the feds can't get in the device, or so they say.
Privacy wasn't an issue in this case anyway, since the FBI would easily be able to get a warrant, if they haven't already.

Yep, that's the used in a crime piece. The only way to have legal privacy is to own it directly as public/corporate phone have a no expectation of privacy policy that come with them.

CAPT Kevin B. Due to the way Apple's current OS works, they can't "clone" the phone prior to unlocking it. Can only backup/copy after it is already unlocked (have to be past the "dead man switch"). This is one of the Security Measures built into the OS.

Can't image it at all while it's locked. Can't try passcodes except on the hardware.

I think that we have the technical capability to back trace things posted on twitter, social media, and obviously email. The legal question is can we collect metadata without getting a warrant. Existing precedent says yes, for non-US citizens outside the USA. But what happens when they are already here?

SSG(P) (Join to see) - Were I to venture a guess, I would say that there was a time not so long ago when the US Government had a monopoly that technology companies had to recognize.
It was the only way to get your satellite into space.
Not anymore.
It was the only way to get permitting for broadcast frequencies.
Still sort of true.
They had the ability to approve or delay patents.
Still true.
The USG would love to maintain it's historical leverage, but finds it slipping away. Tech companies had always chafed at this, and I see this as a stiff-arm to keep the USG at bay.

1SG (Join to see), these are good points. It certainly holds true in the face of apple now looking into what legal action they can tale to get the FBI to spill the beans on how exactly they hacked the system, or what vulnerability they exploited. I guess this begs the question of if in the event the USG sits down with their specially appoint security official at the White House and determines this loophole is too great of one to lose by sharing it privately back to Apple, and is the only viable option for the USG to be able to access another phone in the future . . . Would Apple sink low enough to peruse the black market in search of such tech? Apple has been synonymous with security across its platforms for quite a while, which may be enough drive for them to pursue such a route. I’m sure they are reeling in anxiety over the issue that not only are they subject to the mercy of the government in this matter, but, their image as a security fortress if you will, is also compromised.

SSG(P) (Join to see) - Apple has been historically more secure more because it had a novel proprietary operating system that hackers attacked less often. It just didn't have the market penetration of windows, or the industrial espionage cachet of Linux-based systems.
The iphone and its market saturation changed that.
My guess is that NSA is quite adept at cracking encryption, and short of one-time keys coming into vogue, always will. It is just a matter of pointing that monstrous power on a specific target to get specific information that remains elusive.
If it were my phone and the feds were after me, I doubt my encryption would make it to the next sundown.

1SG (Join to see), point taken. Their history with the iPhone and hacking is sketchy at best. Surprisingly, this isn’t general public knowledge. The public stills sees Apple as a security fortress, and Apple exploits this quite efficiently. I can’t count how many times I’ve had the argument made to me to purchase an Apple product due to its encryption software and how they are virtually free of viruses, bugs, etc. public image drives perception and perception is key in so many facets of life. As to the NSA, I would wager your thoughts to be correct. I think the biggest issue was not having the capability to deactivate the zeroize feature. I would bet everything otherwise was fully capable of access. The question still remains to where it would drive the Silicon Valley giant to venture in unearthing their answer.

"Never let a good crisis go to waste".

I agree with the premise to prevent the Government from being able to access your information without a proper search warrant. I do not agree that a judge cannot order the device unlocked. I'd be willing to listen to Apple's arguments on how much it would cost to unlock this specific phone, I do not agree with their claims that opening one phone would jeopardize others. Apple could easily unlock this phone and others where a search warrant has been issued, without giving the capability to the government. Freedom from illegal search and seizure is not a grounds for freedom for legal searches.

MAJ (Join to see) - I think you meant to respond to the other post.

However:
1) We're in a agreement (Search Warrant).
2) Apple has already been assisting the DoJ (et al) regarding unlocking "individual" devices, and even this particular device (Which can be done from a hardware standpoint). Ordering them to use a specific method is where I have a disagreement with, especially since it opens them and the People up to other issues. (See article).
3) Please check the article. It provides context from Oct 2014 where the FBI Director said that "software access" was his goal.
4) Putting in "backdoors" is counter to the point of "security." WE are paying them to NOT have those design flaws.
5) Freedom from illegal search & seizure is protected, however nothing says we have to make it easy for the Government to violate Privacy. Just like you can't be compelled to testify against yourself, why should you be compelled to turn over (potential) evidence in your possession, in what is arguably a "fishing expedition?"

If I have things on my phone/computer/safe/etc and the Government demands to search them, my instant response is going to be to Pound Sand whether they have a warrant or not. They can figure out how to get in on their own. I am under no obligation to assist the prosecution in helping to hang me.

Even if they couldn't they could pay someone with the expertise to do it, on the quiet. One of the telecomm companies I worked for that developed features for basic phone service from Central Offices, was asked to develop the ability to monitor a phone by opening the circuit with the phone on-hook, we gave a price and said we could do it. I left the company before the feature was sold (too bad, that would have been a commission sale for me), so I don't know what happened.

I imagine this whole procedure is a farce. The Feds probably have the phone hacked but for some reason they are trying to make legal precedent so that future security/encryption has a legal back door.

Yep. This is nothing more than a power grab by the FBI. Clipper chip all over again. Comey is on record that he thinks encryption he can't break is bad and shouldn't be allowed.

They can't get signed firmware on the phone without apple's keys. The phone won't execute firmware that isn't signed.