Posted on Jan 20, 2014
CSM Infantry Senior Sergeant
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I have had the honor of serving as a 1SG for 20 months so far in my second company. How long do you think a key leader be it commander, CSM, or 1SG should stay in the same unit and do you believe more time hurts or helps that unit keeping those leaders in place? 
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1SG Steven Stankovich
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Congratulations 1SG!!!  I selfishly wish I could have stayed a 1SG forever.  I think that 24-36 months in one position in one command, is optimal.  While we aim to hold onto our leadership positions as long as can (or at least we should), there are reasons why our Army moves us out.  Replacing leaders after their "time is up" allows for continued unit growth.  Fresh eyes, ideas and blood allow leaders to take the guidon and the reigns of the unit and to continue to move it forward.  If leaders stay "too long" in one position/unit, stagnation may occur and in some instances, comfort and complacency.  No good comes from that. 




Continuity in the unit is important when changing leaders out, but as long as we have developed, trained and prepared our junior leaders, a transition at the top should be a seamless transition.  With that being said though, I am a fan of staggered changes at the 1SG and Company Command level as well as at the BN CSM and BN CDR level.

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CSM Infantry Senior Sergeant
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You hit the nail on the head MSG Conner with how I am feeling. I have loved both of my companies and would gladly serve as 1SG in any other unit but can seriously relate to being on fire to finding myself a little more relaxed than when I started. I think it's just human to relax a little bit especially if you built not just the bond of being their 1SG but a deployed 1SG as well. Which, so you pointed out can seriously cloud one's judgment on the black and white issues. 
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CSM Infantry Senior Sergeant
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Another key point to burn out I believe is not only where you serve but who you serve with. Be it your battle buddy the company commander or the chain of command one, two, or even three levels above you can greatly impact how we operate and the decisions we have to make as leaders. It's very frustrating to find yourself surrounded by leaders that state they have been in your shoes but have not really been in your shoes. For example, I know what it's like to be a 1SG states a CSM/SGM but has never served say as a HQs 1SG before. Can they really relate their experiences as a 1SG to mine and when faced with tough decisions and needing guidance how can I lean on them for that needed experience and counsel? 
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1SG Steven Stankovich
1SG Steven Stankovich
12 y
I think that SGMs/CSMs who have absolutely served as 1SGs, but may not share your common denominator as a HHC/HQs 1SG, provide guidance based on observed experiences.  What I mean by that is we all have our 1SG huddles where we compare notes, vent, exchange ideas, etc.  I think those SGMs/CSMs reach back to their own experiences during their 1SG huddles and pull those experiences forward.  Just a thought... 
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CSM Infantry Senior Sergeant
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Great points again MSG! Soldiers are always asking what the differences are between a 1SG and a MSG. Your experiences and answers clearly articulate those differences and define what a seasoned NCO like yourself can offer, thanks for the guidance. 
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1LT Infantry Officer
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Two years is optimal and three years is stretching it; from my perspective.  Three years is understandable if you take a unit over, go to a training rotation, go on a long deployment, redeploy, and go through a major MTOE change or something like that.

I've seen leaders who spent their leadership time all in the same battalion; that's a bad thing.  There's a narrowing of horizons in the entire unit when your senior leadership has known each other since they were junior NCOs (HRC seems to force officers to PCS) and they all have dirt on each other.  
The worst I've seen is five straight years of the same brigade CSM.  Considering that the average assignment is four years or less for most people, this CSM ran the entire operation like a personal fiefdom.  The brigade commander never disagreed with his senior enlisted advisor, mainly because he'd already survived three brigade commanders and knew everyone in the entire unit.
There's solid reasons for limiting command time and I strongly believe that anything over two years moves a unit away from the Army standard and toward that leader's individual standard.
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CSM Infantry Senior Sergeant
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SSG Beutler, you bring up some great points. Obviously there are certain times that a unit cannot afford to change out key leaders deployments being one of them for sure. I too had a Brigade CSM that had served six years in the same Brigade before he was finally relieved and without question meets your example of making individual standards up. 
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1SG First Sergeant
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I agree with MSG Stankovich in regards to the staggered changes. As to the main question, I feel a senior leader should stay in position approx. 24 months. That seems to be the optimal time to effect changes without becoming too stagnant. I'm all for that same leader holding additional leadership time, just in another unit/echelon. Like SSG Cedeno, I have been in a unit where too much turmoil is not a good thing. In one unit, we had 3 CDRs and 4 1SGs at the company in a 24 month time frame.  Some were moved for goof reasons (selected for advance schooling) others were removed due to negative reasons (pending adverse action). 
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CSM Infantry Senior Sergeant
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In three years I have seen ten 1SGs in four companies moved out and with that so many changes to how their respective companies operate. I have never in my career seen such a turnover before of 1SGs. Do you think this is a current trend in the Army or just a coincidence? 
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1SG First Sergeant
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1SG, from my foxhole it appears to be a trend of increasing scrutiny on a position that requires the utmost dedication from our very best NCOs. Having said that, it seems sometimes, the Army has not been able to select the best to serve and these leaders have cracked under the intense pressure of being the 1SG. I think we need to bring back the First Sergeant course as a prerequisite and make it a better course so as to properly prepare and equip those leaders with tools and knowledge to become successful 1SGs.
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CSM Infantry Senior Sergeant
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12 y
You bring up an excellent point with the FSC just not sure how much more the FSC could teach 1SGs that the SLC doesn't already cover? In all honesty, I learned a lot more from my post's Commanders/First Sergeants course than what was taught to us in SLC. Particularly current trends and agencies to assist command teams in helping our soldiers out. 
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1SG Steven Stankovich
1SG Steven Stankovich
12 y
The FSC was discontinued when I was halfway through the PH1 portion.  I was a sitting 1SG for 18 months before I went to the TRADOC Company CDR/1SG Course at Fort Jackson.  Good information there...specifically if you were serving at Fort Jackson.  1SG Rink brings up a great point.  Those Installation CDR/1SG Courses are packed with useful information and POCs that are installation specific.  They are a wealth of knowledge.
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How long should one leader be in a unit?
CPT Mike M.
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I know the NCO and officer side of the house is different but at least for our end, I think key leaders should be changed out between 18-24 months, if that.  I'm in my 2nd command right now and in a couple weeks will hit 36 months of command time.  Personally, I'm getting burnt out on property, Soldier issues (although I've been blessed to have very minimal issues) and having every person who's ever been in Command trying to stick their nose in my business to tell me to do it their way when frankly, if I'm doing it differently, more often than not, it's not that I hadn't thought of their way, it's that I have a reason for doing it mine.  I'm ready for a break.  17 working days left in the life of my deactivated unit!
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CSM Infantry Senior Sergeant
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12 y
I think you are spot on sir especially about doing it your way not because you think you know better but because I believe you know what's going on! As the commander you are right there where the rubber meets the road and I am sorry but no one echelons above you can remotely have the same finger on the pulse as you do
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SGT Craig Northacker
SGT Craig Northacker
>1 y
Excellent point, Captain, and well said. You get to figure out much muck rolling down hill stops at your desk so you can run a good unit. And to do that with a unit being deactivated is especially tough. My hat is off to you.
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Lt Col Luis A. Rojas
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The Air Force typically keeps leaders (Commander, Command Chief, First Sergeant) in their position for no more than 2-years.  I personally believe this amount of time is just right.  I think more time could hurt because depending on the unit's mission, the leadership could "burn out".  Additionally, new leadership brings new ideas, etc.
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Lt Col Luis A. Rojas
Lt Col Luis A. Rojas
12 y

I found this paper that does a nice job of explaining the history of the "First Sergeant" or "First Shirt" position...very interesting info.

 

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/au-24/ball.pdf

 

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Lt Col Luis A. Rojas
Lt Col Luis A. Rojas
12 y
You are correct, it is not that common for an E9 to be a First Shirt...I've seen it only in very large units.
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CSM Infantry Senior Sergeant
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12 y
Very excellent read sir thanks for the share. 
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Maj Walter Kilar
Maj Walter Kilar
12 y
There are some units in the Air Force that somehow keep their officer and enlisted leadership positions longer than two years. I was in a unit where the Command Chief and Commander were both kept for three years, because of "issues" with the previous leadership, and realignment of the unit (supposedly unrelated issues). Also the Air Force has weird issues with leadership billets in odd units. Another unit I was in was realigned, but it was next to impossible to get another First Sergeant and Commander into the unit since the unit was selectively manned by security clearance and skill set. Theoretically, the Air Force also sticks with the two-year rule for leadership billets, but weird things happen.

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Maj Walter Kilar
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It depends. Go back to the definition of leadership: "influencing people by providing purpose, direction, and motivation while operating to accomplish the mission and improving the organization." Can and should one leader do this for only two years in one unit? It depends on the unit. Some units are already squared away, and the leader can stick with the standard two years and yield the office to someone else who can use the opportunity. Some units need a lot of love and attention, so the leader can stick around for a bit to get the unit where it should be--or that leader should yield the office to someone better suited to accomplish the mission. Leaders should not sit in one place--they should be fixing problems, then moving on to the next fire that needs to be put out. There is a place for stagnant NCOs and officers, and that place is probably not in leadership positions. We cannot all be leaders, but those of us who really are leaders need to move around and grow.
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CSM Infantry Senior Sergeant
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12 y
Valid points sir each units demographics, mission, and need for commanders and senior NCOs to address specific unit issues does drive how long a certain leader needs to be maintained in the unit. 
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CMC Robert Young
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1SG, you pose an interesting question in that some movement is required for individual growth, but movement that is too frequent actually degrades performance because it prevents establishing operational continuity; reduces the opportunity to develop needed relationships or master unit specific skills and nuances.


I read an article from a non partisan think tank several years ago which had researched average military tour lengths, and how rotation impacted individual and unit performance. The study showed that on average the Air Force moved its people slower than the other services while the Marines moved people more often. The ultimate conclusion was that very frequent rotation between assignments actually hindered unit and individual development, performance, and mission effectiveness. The study didn't offer specifics as to what an optimal tour length should be, but the indications were that something on the order of 36 months was probably better than shorter tours.



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CSM Infantry Senior Sergeant
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12 y
MCPO, interesting to hear because I would have thought the Marines of all branches would keep their leaders in position the longest. What are the standard tours of duty for MCPOs and SCPOs? Does the Coast Guard have positions that are like 1SGs? 
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CMC Robert Young
CMC Robert Young
12 y

Shore based assignments may be as long as 48 months and underway (ship based) assignments may be up to 36 months. The Detailer is supposed to balance each members' career path between shore and ship assignments depending on the needs of their individual specialty. It's suppose to provide for stability personally and professionally. The caveat is that it's not

unusual for senior members to short tour and PCS early to higher profile assignments (NCOIC, command enlisted advisors for local commands or flag officers; school houses, or critical fill billets) as career development tools.....not to mention those are the cool jobs for the E8/9 workforce.


We probably follow the USAF 1SG model a little more closely than we do the Army's, but we do have something that mirrors the 1SG/CSM world; command chiefs. These positions are special assignments which take the member out of their specialty and assign them as command enlisted advisors. You become the HR, military education, mentoring, health/welfare, people problem expert.


We call them "Badges" because instead of the diamond in their chevrons, the incumbent wears a silver command advisor's badge. In rare cases, it's an E7 and possibly a collateral duty. More often, depending on the size of the command it's an E8 who has it as their primary duty. For large commands, it may be an E9, and for flag staffs, it's always an E9 (gold badge).


I was selected by the board last year, and assigned as a "Silver Badge". It's been one of the coolest jobs I had so far! In addition to our Senior Enlisted Leaders' Course, the command has also sent me to the USAF 1SG Course so it's been good stuff!


Hope that helps.

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SGT Craig Northacker
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A good top is worth his or her weight in gold, and provides stability to the unit as officers come and go. The same with a SGM and CSM. I have also had officers I never wanted to see leave, and others that could not leave soon enough.
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MAJ Jim Woods
MAJ Jim Woods
>1 y
They'll never do it but it should be as long as the unit remains efficient.  The leaders should be left in place until they request a move or they get promoted.  
The longest I had a Command was 8 months because every other Infantry Captain had to have his shot. And that was at Ft. Benning with an Infantry Officers Vietnam Refresher Course Company. They knew I would be going back to VN so they made me the Bn. S-4 for 4 months.

I, had a terrible attitude as a staff officer.  I did the job but hated every moment. I wanted to be left with the troops and left alone.  I could have been a career Captain. I had several Senior NCO's that were great. The units just ran like a fine swiss watch.  We anticipated each other's thoughts/actions and took a real team approach to leadership. One of them ended up as the CSMA I believe. 
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SGT Craig Northacker
SGT Craig Northacker
>1 y
I am happy to hear you made a lousy REMF! That only say good things about you...lol. Now I can "sir" you.
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MSG(P) Thomas Finn
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Taht is a tough answer. There is that saying, If it ain't broke then don't fix it." but I believe as senior leaders we have an obligation to mentor junior Soldiers and every leader brings something new to the table. Problem is with the FML slots are becoming increasingly difficult to obtain.
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1SG Visual Information Operations Chief
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Top,

In my opinion the minimum should be 24 months this will allow the 1SG or CSM to establish themselves and get their initiatives accomplish. In my last unit we had five 1SGs in 3 years and all of them had different leadership styles. Which became disruptive and hurt morale because once you start adapting to their leadership style they were leaving already.  
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CSM Infantry Senior Sergeant
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12 y
I can completely understand how you feel about leaders changing out especially five in three years, ouch. It's kind of a double edged sword if you will. You want bad leaders moved out fast and the good ones are needed to run HQs companies. What was the reasoning behind the multiple change outs? 
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1SG Visual Information Operations Chief
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12 y
1SG,

They were in Ft Benning to long and branch wanted to move them, retirements, one of the 1SG was toxic and an extremely reactive leader which force CSM to move him. Those were the main reasons. 

Overall it was a learning experience, I learned how much a 1SG can affect an unit's operations and morale.
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1SG Steven Stankovich
1SG Steven Stankovich
12 y
That's a tough position for a unit and it's members to be placed in SSG Cedeno.  Looks like you definitely took something positive out of it by referring it to a learning experience.  A NCO has a very large impact on morale within their sphere of influence...especially at the 1SG level.
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CSM Infantry Senior Sergeant
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12 y
Very positive way to look at all those change outs SSG Cedeno
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