Posted on May 12, 2015
How many of us have seen closed-doors racism in the military?
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I don't have any links or surveys, just personal experiences.
From my observations, racism is alive in the military, particularly among officers. I don't know why it seems that way, but my guess would be that there are more minorities in the enlisted ranks?
My own observations mostly involved Marines; the interesting part was that they would - only behind closed doors - say some pretty awful things about nearly any minority you could imagine, including other Marines, but not a single one of them ever said any of those things about their own subordinates or teammates.
I've witnessed it a lot with the Army as well, a little bit with the Navy, and almost not at all with the Air Force. Is it perhaps just a grunt-centric attitude that they want to shock people with what they say, maybe? They say rough things for shock value, and don't act on those words? I'm not entirely convinced.
I've had plenty of friends - particularly while I was in college - who would say any awful thing necessary to get a good laugh from a group. Is that what this is? Or is there something else behind it?
Now's your chance to either sound off about how you feel, or set the story straight.
From my observations, racism is alive in the military, particularly among officers. I don't know why it seems that way, but my guess would be that there are more minorities in the enlisted ranks?
My own observations mostly involved Marines; the interesting part was that they would - only behind closed doors - say some pretty awful things about nearly any minority you could imagine, including other Marines, but not a single one of them ever said any of those things about their own subordinates or teammates.
I've witnessed it a lot with the Army as well, a little bit with the Navy, and almost not at all with the Air Force. Is it perhaps just a grunt-centric attitude that they want to shock people with what they say, maybe? They say rough things for shock value, and don't act on those words? I'm not entirely convinced.
I've had plenty of friends - particularly while I was in college - who would say any awful thing necessary to get a good laugh from a group. Is that what this is? Or is there something else behind it?
Now's your chance to either sound off about how you feel, or set the story straight.
Leadership
Racism
Officers
NCOs
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 27
I'm the Equal Opportunity Leader (EOL) for my unit, which is deployed. We had an issue in the barracks with a lot of derogatory language. I approached the Soldiers and ordered them to stop. They thought I was funny. So, I got their leadership involved. Last night, a couple of my Soldiers came into my area to ask me a question. I answered and our conversation was complete. They started talking to each other, and one said "nigga" while talking to his buddy. I turned around and asked, "what did you just say?" He tried to play it off like he didn't do it. Then he admitted and said it wasn't a big deal, I was making it one, because that's the upbringing he grew up with. I had to remind him about the class I had just given the month prior about racist remarks and disparaging terms. I then pulled the group in and told everyone that the days of gangbanging, thugging, clansmen, cholo and so-forth are over. My statement is such, "if you cannot change your vocabulary or adjust your behavior to meet the standards of honorable military service and decency, let me know. I will do whatever is in my ability to have you removed from the service."
I had seen it run the gambit from Homophobia, Religious based, Gender, and Race. I just shake my head and challenge them to be better than that.
I've definitely seen and heard comments and actions that an EO rep would consider racist. Looking back on the situations, had I been a casual observer, I may have considered some of the comments racist myself. That said, the situations that come to mind always had a humor tone and involved soldiers of multiple different races. I'm not justifying the actions, just giving context to the situation.
Sometimes it was a subtle as a comment from a white soldier to an Asian soldier to save some rice for everyone else. Other times it was a black soldier asking a white soldier if he wanted some ranch dressing for his french fries, because white people put ranch on everything. These were soldiers in the same team or squad messing with each other one second, and ready to fight and die with them the next. As long as the person being messed with didn't have a problem with it, neither did I. I did ensure everyone knew there was a line that would not be crossed.
I feel sometimes we are too quick to use the word racist, just like sometimes we are too quick to say something is hazing. I will say I have never seen anyone denied a position, award, promotion, or anything else based on the color of their skin, only on their merit. Conversely, I have never seen anyone awarded a position, promotion, award, etc. based on the color of their skin.
Sometimes it was a subtle as a comment from a white soldier to an Asian soldier to save some rice for everyone else. Other times it was a black soldier asking a white soldier if he wanted some ranch dressing for his french fries, because white people put ranch on everything. These were soldiers in the same team or squad messing with each other one second, and ready to fight and die with them the next. As long as the person being messed with didn't have a problem with it, neither did I. I did ensure everyone knew there was a line that would not be crossed.
I feel sometimes we are too quick to use the word racist, just like sometimes we are too quick to say something is hazing. I will say I have never seen anyone denied a position, award, promotion, or anything else based on the color of their skin, only on their merit. Conversely, I have never seen anyone awarded a position, promotion, award, etc. based on the color of their skin.
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Those sound like harmless jabs to me. In my post, I'm referring to having witnessed legitimately offensive or hateful comments; whether they were said for shock value or sincere racism, I couldn't tell.
The question you need to add to your poll is who had the heart to stand up and make sure that it was stopped!!
I have not seen it in Nam or the posts I was signed to, but I did see it in 1967 Detroit riots. I saw three teenage boys shot in the back by shotguns the police used after we caught them in a chase after being shot at. The gun was a starter pistol and they were just being teenagers. We were told by our PL to keep our mouths shut, and we didn't see anything or hear anything. I've never forgotten and I have tried to get someone to investigate, but all I get, even from blacks, is drop it, it's not worth it. I've sent letters to the NAACP, Detroit Black Alliance, FBI, Detroit newspapers, and anything else I could think of. Look up 1967 Detroit riots and you will read about three boys killed in a shootout with the police in a hotel room. We stopped at a hotel and the cops got the boys out of the car and took them behind a hotel building alley, and shot them in the back. Nobody cares and nobody wants to open a can of worms that happened 50 years ago. I do, and I will keep trying. The relatives of the boys need some truthful closure.
Aubrey Pollard Black 19 July 26, 1967 Killed after a group of policemen and National Guardsmen stormed the Algiers Motel in search of snipers.
Carl Cooper Black 17 July 26, 1967 Killed with Pollard at the Algiers Motel.
Fred Temple Black 18 July 26, 1967 Killed in the Algiers Motel.
Aubrey Pollard Black 19 July 26, 1967 Killed after a group of policemen and National Guardsmen stormed the Algiers Motel in search of snipers.
Carl Cooper Black 17 July 26, 1967 Killed with Pollard at the Algiers Motel.
Fred Temple Black 18 July 26, 1967 Killed in the Algiers Motel.
SGT (Join to see)
You all may not want to read this but, the entire riot began in a bar over two black vets returned from Vietnam. Read on if you want to:
In the early morning hours of July 23, 1967, one of the worst riots in U.S. history breaks out on 12th Street in the heart of Detroit’s predominantly African-American inner city. By the time it was quelled four days later by 7,000 National Guard and U.S. Army troops, 43 people were dead, 342 injured, and nearly 1,400 buildings had been burned.
By the summer of 1967, the predominantly African-American neighborhood of Virginia Park was ready to explode. Some 60,000 poor people were crammed into the neighborhood’s 460 acres, living in squalor in divided and sub-divided apartments. The Detroit Police Department, which had only about 50 African Americans at the time, was viewed as a white occupying army. The only other whites seen in the neighborhood commuted from the suburbs to run their stores on 12th Street.
At night, 12th Street was a center of Detroit inner-city nightlife, both legal and illegal. At the corner of 12th and Clairmount, William Scott operated an illegal after-hours club on weekends out of the office of the United Community League for Civic Action, a civil rights group. The police vice squad often raided establishments like this on 12th Street, and at 3:35 a.m. on Sunday morning, July 23, they moved against Scott’s club.
That night, the establishment was hosting a party for several veterans, including two servicemen recently returned from Vietnam, and the bar’s patrons were reluctant to leave. Out in the street, a crowd began to gather as police waited for paddy wagons to take the 85 patrons away. Tensions between area blacks and police were high at the time, partly because of a rumor (later proved to be untrue) that police had shot and killed a black prostitute two days before. Then a rumor began to circulate that the vice squad had beaten one of the women being arrested.
An hour passed before the last prisoner was taken away, and by then about 200 onlookers lined the street. A bottle crashed into the street. The remaining police ignored it, but then more bottles were thrown, including one through the window of a patrol car. The police fled as a riot erupted. Within an hour, thousands of people had spilled out onto the street. Looting began on 12th Street, and some whites arrived to join in. Around 6:30 a.m., the first fire broke out, and soon much of the street was set ablaze. By midmorning, every policeman and fireman in Detroit was called to duty. On 12th Street, officers fought to control the mob. Firemen were attacked as they tried to battle the flames.
Detroit Mayor Jerome P. Cavanaugh asked Michigan Governor George Romney to send in the state police, but these 300 more officers could not keep the riot from spreading to a 100-block area around Virginia Park. The National Guard was called in shortly after but didn’t arrive until evening. By the end of the day, more than 1,000 were arrested, but still the riot kept growing. Five people were dead.
On Monday, 16 people were killed, most by police or guardsmen. Snipers fired at firemen, and fire hoses were cut. Governor Romney asked President Lyndon Johnson to send in U.S. troops. Nearly 2,000 army paratroopers arrived on Tuesday and began patrolling the street in tanks and armored carriers. Ten more people died that day, and 12 more on Wednesday. On Thursday, July 27, order was finally restored. More than 7,000 people were arrested during the four days of rioting. A total of 43 were killed. Some 1,700 stores were looted and nearly 1,400 buildings burned, causing $50 million in property damage. Some 5,000 people were left homeless.
The so-called 12th Street Riot was the worst U.S. riot in 100 years, occurring during a period of numerous riots in America. A report by the National Advisory Commission on Civil Disorders, appointed by President Johnson, identified more than 150 riots or major disorders between 1965 and 1968. In 1967 alone, 83 people were killed and 1,800 were injured–the majority of them African Americans–and property valued at more than $100 million was damaged, looted, or destroyed.
In the early morning hours of July 23, 1967, one of the worst riots in U.S. history breaks out on 12th Street in the heart of Detroit’s predominantly African-American inner city. By the time it was quelled four days later by 7,000 National Guard and U.S. Army troops, 43 people were dead, 342 injured, and nearly 1,400 buildings had been burned.
By the summer of 1967, the predominantly African-American neighborhood of Virginia Park was ready to explode. Some 60,000 poor people were crammed into the neighborhood’s 460 acres, living in squalor in divided and sub-divided apartments. The Detroit Police Department, which had only about 50 African Americans at the time, was viewed as a white occupying army. The only other whites seen in the neighborhood commuted from the suburbs to run their stores on 12th Street.
At night, 12th Street was a center of Detroit inner-city nightlife, both legal and illegal. At the corner of 12th and Clairmount, William Scott operated an illegal after-hours club on weekends out of the office of the United Community League for Civic Action, a civil rights group. The police vice squad often raided establishments like this on 12th Street, and at 3:35 a.m. on Sunday morning, July 23, they moved against Scott’s club.
That night, the establishment was hosting a party for several veterans, including two servicemen recently returned from Vietnam, and the bar’s patrons were reluctant to leave. Out in the street, a crowd began to gather as police waited for paddy wagons to take the 85 patrons away. Tensions between area blacks and police were high at the time, partly because of a rumor (later proved to be untrue) that police had shot and killed a black prostitute two days before. Then a rumor began to circulate that the vice squad had beaten one of the women being arrested.
An hour passed before the last prisoner was taken away, and by then about 200 onlookers lined the street. A bottle crashed into the street. The remaining police ignored it, but then more bottles were thrown, including one through the window of a patrol car. The police fled as a riot erupted. Within an hour, thousands of people had spilled out onto the street. Looting began on 12th Street, and some whites arrived to join in. Around 6:30 a.m., the first fire broke out, and soon much of the street was set ablaze. By midmorning, every policeman and fireman in Detroit was called to duty. On 12th Street, officers fought to control the mob. Firemen were attacked as they tried to battle the flames.
Detroit Mayor Jerome P. Cavanaugh asked Michigan Governor George Romney to send in the state police, but these 300 more officers could not keep the riot from spreading to a 100-block area around Virginia Park. The National Guard was called in shortly after but didn’t arrive until evening. By the end of the day, more than 1,000 were arrested, but still the riot kept growing. Five people were dead.
On Monday, 16 people were killed, most by police or guardsmen. Snipers fired at firemen, and fire hoses were cut. Governor Romney asked President Lyndon Johnson to send in U.S. troops. Nearly 2,000 army paratroopers arrived on Tuesday and began patrolling the street in tanks and armored carriers. Ten more people died that day, and 12 more on Wednesday. On Thursday, July 27, order was finally restored. More than 7,000 people were arrested during the four days of rioting. A total of 43 were killed. Some 1,700 stores were looted and nearly 1,400 buildings burned, causing $50 million in property damage. Some 5,000 people were left homeless.
The so-called 12th Street Riot was the worst U.S. riot in 100 years, occurring during a period of numerous riots in America. A report by the National Advisory Commission on Civil Disorders, appointed by President Johnson, identified more than 150 riots or major disorders between 1965 and 1968. In 1967 alone, 83 people were killed and 1,800 were injured–the majority of them African Americans–and property valued at more than $100 million was damaged, looted, or destroyed.
I think a lot of those that are racist had a lot of family and cultural influence. Most every nationality is against another nationality or of another region of that country/Nationality. In America there is so many variations of racism and/or prejudiced that it's easily seen, especially behind closed doors. I've seen white pride, Mexican pride, black pride, islander pride, etc. Their are plenty of divisions in the military and race is unfortunately one of them.
I haven't experience that first hand in the military. I think many service members in the Army are afraid of the repercussions. If said, it may not haunt them for several years.
Closed door, not so much. But subtle racism, most definitely. Where it comes from is at once both simple and complex. For starters, all of those people in the last century that opposed civil rights did not simply disappear in the 1970's. They had children and their children had children and these people were raised in fear and took that with them into their adult lives. In certain MOS, there are trends of majority ethnic groups, and in these environments, certain predilections have plenty to feed on and grow, mich like a bacteria or a virus; the end results being similar in that the whole "organism" becomes infected.
As to whether there are more non-Caucasians in the enlisted ranks than officer ranks, this is a numerical fact. But there are reasons behind that as well, also complex and yet also so simple. That would take me too long to explain by itself, but I do hope that what I have shared provides a least a little insight into your question.
As to whether there are more non-Caucasians in the enlisted ranks than officer ranks, this is a numerical fact. But there are reasons behind that as well, also complex and yet also so simple. That would take me too long to explain by itself, but I do hope that what I have shared provides a least a little insight into your question.
I witnessed plenty of racism in one of my previous units. I won't elaborate because it was handled. Perhaps it was an exception to the rule, as it were.
I don't think it is grunt Centrica, however....since it was the support MOS guys that were the perpetrators. The wording of your question came across sideways to me at first, since I am one of the Grunts, after reading it a second time I realized that you were asking an honest question.
I don't think it is grunt Centrica, however....since it was the support MOS guys that were the perpetrators. The wording of your question came across sideways to me at first, since I am one of the Grunts, after reading it a second time I realized that you were asking an honest question.
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It was, indeed, a legitimate question. I always felt the Corps and the Army had more of an overall grunt mindset. The sort of thing where if you took an admin Sailor and an admin Marine, everybody including those two guys would see the Marine as more of a grunt. I'm not sure how else to word it. Marines and Soldiers pride themselves on being g hardened Individuals more than Sailors and Airmen do. Maybe that would've been a better wording.
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