Posted on Nov 23, 2016
How much influence, if any, should religious organizations have in politics?
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the True meaning in the separation of church and state ...
keeping the Church from Making decisions for the state and Keeping the State out of the Pulpit...
keeping the Church from Making decisions for the state and Keeping the State out of the Pulpit...
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SSG Shavonde Chase
You say a church should have a voice. What should they be able to voice about as there is suppose to be a separation between church and state.
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SGT (Join to see)
SSG Shavonde Chase - As an organization operating under free speech any organization can voice their thoughts and opinions, thus my reasoning for saying "a voice". BUT they should not have a say or influence in how our political system works or should run.
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Companies lobby Congress. Unions lobby Congress. MOAA (Military Officers Association of America) lobbies Congress. Does CAIR (Council on American Islamic Relations) lobby Congress? or USCMO? ISNA? If they do, why wouldn't a Coalition of Catholic Organizations Against Human Trafficking be able to? As a faction within our populace (and we all are members of factions), do we tape shut the mouths of believers, but allow every other faction a voice?
http://www.usccb.org/about/anti-trafficking-program/coalition-of-catholic-organizations-against-human-trafficking.cfm
http://www.usccb.org/about/anti-trafficking-program/coalition-of-catholic-organizations-against-human-trafficking.cfm
Coalition of Catholic Organizations Against Human Trafficking
Coalition of Catholic Organizations Against Human Trafficking
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Very limited role, there is supposed to be a separation of Church and state. Opinions are one thing actual acts to promote any religion as having a major role in Government should never be. There can only be one rule of law and not a religious one. Don't confuse that with opening prayers etc, that is fine, that is not the operation of Government. Keeping that in mind also however the Government has no right to exert undue influence an any religion either !
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SSG Shavonde Chase
Well said. How do you feel about taking prayer out of the classroom and football games?
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Religious organizations are made up of people, and people have a say in government. Religious organizations that focus on influencing government are fine, however at that point they should start probably paying taxes like any other business. Religious organizations that want to control or dominate government are the scary ones and they need to be denied the ability to obtain any sort of special status.
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SSG Shavonde Chase
How do you feel about a church having an affiliate organization to promote its cause?
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This where the separation of Church and State comes into play. The Religious organizations can not influence the state at all. So they really should not be using the pulpit for political purposes. Nor should they talk to elected representatives about certain things that might be good for the whole country but the religious group may oppose it on religious grounds. The same can be true of politicians asking the religious groups to back certain legislation or telling a religious group to shut up.
I believe that politicians can pray on the floor of their capital(s) since that is not a violation of the separation between the too. (that is the one thing everyone gets hung up on when it comes this issue). So with that said. Politicians and church leaders need to understand that they can not influence each other to do something the other wants them to do.
I believe that politicians can pray on the floor of their capital(s) since that is not a violation of the separation between the too. (that is the one thing everyone gets hung up on when it comes this issue). So with that said. Politicians and church leaders need to understand that they can not influence each other to do something the other wants them to do.
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TSgt Scott Hurley
SSG Shavonde Chase - I have no problem with it as long as they do not tell their employees how to vote. That is what happened with a lot of Unions. They were telling their Unionized workers how to vote. Which is wrong in my book.
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SSG Shavonde Chase they should have no influence, but neither should unions, businesses, or foreign governments.
The problem is that both sides say they want a level playing field, but each really wants the field tilted in their direction. IMNSHO unions are the worst, because they are allowed to force people to join the union, force them to pay dues, and use those dues to support causes the members may not approve of.
All those whining about Democracy and popular vote because Hillary lost, please explain to me how "Democratic" it is to force someone to join a union, force them to pay dues, and use those dues in ways the member may not agree with. Certainly the desertion of the blue collar workforce, once a pillar of the Democratic party, exemplifies this.
The problem is that both sides say they want a level playing field, but each really wants the field tilted in their direction. IMNSHO unions are the worst, because they are allowed to force people to join the union, force them to pay dues, and use those dues to support causes the members may not approve of.
All those whining about Democracy and popular vote because Hillary lost, please explain to me how "Democratic" it is to force someone to join a union, force them to pay dues, and use those dues in ways the member may not agree with. Certainly the desertion of the blue collar workforce, once a pillar of the Democratic party, exemplifies this.
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SSG Shavonde Chase
I totally agree with your views. However, I think its human nature to try to persuade things to go their way. The problem I see is when people don't accept it. I am not speaking about those things that are widely ethically and legally unacceptable.
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SGM (Join to see)
SSG Shavonde Chase you just hit on the reason our taxes are so high. Everyone hopes that they can get what they want from the government, and someone else will pay for it. Instead we get wasteful and inefficient government bureaucracies doing a lousy job of whatever we wanted then to do and headed by a czar getting a six-figure salary as payback for supporting an officeholder. Taxes go up, our trust in government goes down, but people keep asking the government to do more for them.
But I think you are speaking about things like the Electoral College. It's fine as long as it works in your favor, but is an undemocratic anachronism that must be done away with as soon as possible when it doesn't go your way.
One of the problems of living in a free (more or less) society is the rights of the minority should be respected. I don't think anyone wants to live in a society where 51% of the people say the other 49% should have their money and possessions taken away and their bodies mulched for fertilizer. But when you think the majority should ALWAYS get their way, sooner or later you will be in the 49%.
But I think you are speaking about things like the Electoral College. It's fine as long as it works in your favor, but is an undemocratic anachronism that must be done away with as soon as possible when it doesn't go your way.
One of the problems of living in a free (more or less) society is the rights of the minority should be respected. I don't think anyone wants to live in a society where 51% of the people say the other 49% should have their money and possessions taken away and their bodies mulched for fertilizer. But when you think the majority should ALWAYS get their way, sooner or later you will be in the 49%.
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None. Otherwise how do you determine whose takes precedence? That way lies theocracy, and that's a Very Bad Thing (tm)
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SSG Shavonde Chase
Do you really think people can totally celebrate their religion from politics? Faith is an aspect of our morals that affect how we distinguish between right and wrong.
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CW3 (Join to see)
I'm not asking anyone to totally divorce their religion from their politics. My comment is the difference between these two statements:
1. My religion forbids that, therefore I can't do it.
2. My religion forbids that, therefore YOU can't do it.
1. My religion forbids that, therefore I can't do it.
2. My religion forbids that, therefore YOU can't do it.
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CW3 (Join to see)
And in case anyone's not clear, I'm all for #1, but if you try to push #2, I will oppose you with everything I have, and will consider you unAmerican.
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The same influence we all have. No more no less.
No control except through the ballot box.
No control except through the ballot box.
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Their are undoubtedly issues that have an impact on religious views (i.e. dogma and doctrine) and on day to day secular operations (building codes, parking lot sizes, day care licensing, play ground codes, etc. etc.)
If a faith has a position in dogma or doctrine that has also become a political issue, that faith or sect not only has the right, they have the obligation to let their followers know where the faith or sect's position is. There is no doubt that the Vatican's position on birth control and abortion cost it followers. So there are consequences for a faith whose dogma and doctrine are politically or spiritually controversial.
When it comes to secular issues before a legislative body if the Priest or Pastor is also the secular leader of the congregation, of course he/she has a right and responsibility to campaign for a particular outcome.
If a faith has a position in dogma or doctrine that has also become a political issue, that faith or sect not only has the right, they have the obligation to let their followers know where the faith or sect's position is. There is no doubt that the Vatican's position on birth control and abortion cost it followers. So there are consequences for a faith whose dogma and doctrine are politically or spiritually controversial.
When it comes to secular issues before a legislative body if the Priest or Pastor is also the secular leader of the congregation, of course he/she has a right and responsibility to campaign for a particular outcome.
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SSG Shavonde Chase
I'm not sure if I am following. How can you be both a religious and secular leader?
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Maj John Bell
SSG Shavonde Chase - Someone has to decide what to set the thermostat on, what color the new pew cushions and carpet will be, when to repaint the building, all the "business" decisions of the congregation. I've been in congregations where the pastor makes those decisions, and is thus both the religious and secular head of the congregation.
I've been in congregations where the elders' council or an elected business administrator makes those decisions, and thus the Pastor is only the religious leader of the church.
I've been in congregations where the elders' council or an elected business administrator makes those decisions, and thus the Pastor is only the religious leader of the church.
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