Posted on Feb 25, 2017
SPC Cameron Hale
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By necessary I mean, realistic. Realistically would I ever use the training? I'm a pog, 25U to be exact.
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LCpl Cody Collins
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You know what I've always said that the lack of hand to hand combat training for our nation's police officers is why shootings are up so much. If you think about it if you confront a criminal that has a knife or a billy club anything other than a gun comma if you have proper hand to hand combat training you could disarm that pump and punch him in his head a few times then cuff him or her. But because of that lack of hand to hand combat training or close combat most police officers are opting for the gun which embroils them and all kind of political garbage. If you can get that close combat training take it, it's like algebra you ask yourself when you're in school what do I need algebra for? But once you get out into the real world you'll soon find out when you apply for a job.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
>1 y
I found often the training I received in the Military was far better than many civilian Police Officers received. In Massachusetts however they seem to do better with this than many other states, We did receive training in this area of defense and take downs without resorting to firearms. Also We were quite well trained in when to employ deadly force with a firearm and when not to. I see items in the news where firearms were used and our training here showed it was not authorized or called for. Not that We neglected firearm training either, we spent almost two weeks on the firing range. We were well trained on both how and when to resort to a firearm. That training has paid off both in My Mitary Police ans well as civilian Police experience later. I was fortunate all the training was good both in the Military and in the Brookline Police Academy, Brookline, MA as a civilian Police Officer.
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LCpl Cody Collins
LCpl Cody Collins
>1 y
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter - that was excellent! We need people like you on a national level to help with this issue. I won't call it a problem because most of the time the criminal deserve what he got , not in every case but most. Besides I think people get the message more when they're punched in the head or in the solar plexus than shot. Because now days if they get shot, they see dollar signs, but when they get a few body blows. They feel pain and aggravation.
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SPC Joseph Ahner
SPC Joseph Ahner
>1 y
I agree wholeheartedly. That incident with the athsmatic guy that one cop choked to death in new york is a perfect example. On one hand she used far more force than was necessary to restrain him. On the other hand she jumped up on the guy who was twice her height's back. Had he not been asthmatic he could have thrown himself backwards on the sidewalk and broke her ribs, neck and skull.
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CSM Richard StCyr
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Self defense is always worth while. You never know when you'll have to kick some lowlifes ass and the time to learn is before the ass whoopin' commences. If you have the opportunity to learn more go for it.
Someday, sometime in a dark poorly lit parking lot somewhere , your family or friends may thank you.
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SPC Cameron Hale
SPC Cameron Hale
>1 y
Hooah Sergeant Major.
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LTC Daniel Rogne
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I find at least the first three levels to be useful for Infantrymen who are dangerously close to their enemies. Bring the experience of combative sad another tool in the kit bag to draw out should the need arise. The father of MACP always said that he who brings more friends with weapons to a fight wins. But he also saw the need to be flexible enough to take on an enemy in close quarters where you may not be able to bring your rifle up in time or end up struggling to employ it while the enemy may be attempting to grab it from you. What you get in the end is a warrior fighting spirit regardless of MOS.
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MSG Mechanic 2nd
MSG (Join to see)
>1 y
may I add that this training as you go out into civilian world may some day save your life or somebody else, the world we live in is dangerous and all people should have at least some sort of training, not only to defend themselves but to recognized the dangers around them
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SPC Joseph Ahner
SPC Joseph Ahner
>1 y
Another note on that being the first three levels have been condensed to two. There is no fourth anymore and lv 3 is trainer certification.
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How necessary are the additional levels of MACP (after level one certification)?
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
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Edited >1 y ago
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I would agree, while assigned the the 351st Combat Defense Squadron, (SAC) Whiteman AFB, MO as an Air Policeman in 1966-67-68 We were all required to take a course known then as Combative Measures. Much of this was defense against armed assault without resorting to firearms. We all left classes limping, with new bruises etc from making and blocking kicks etc. It turns out however when it was needed I actually responded without even having to think about it and not having to resort to deadly force involving use of a firearm. I wondered after training if that would happen, it did more than once ! The training was well worth it and because of it no one had to die as I had an alternative to lethal force that also let Me gain control and apprehend the suspect with no injury to Myself. At least their injuries weren't fatal, so they can also be thankful for My training. Shown below is the manual and a partial view anyway of some of the inside pages. (if You click on each picture You can get the complete page views) There were too many pages to show more than what i did but I still have the manual. Perhaps some of My fellow old "Sky Cops" here took this Course ?
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SP5 Retired
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Edited >1 y ago
SPC Cameron Hale Any form of martial arts will involve much more than just physical contact and mechanical means used to defeat an opponent - it will cause you to understand yourself and your abilities more clearly, it will cause you to become more situationally aware at all times, and it will introduce you to a form of ethics that you will find in no other form of activity. Understanding an opponent, whether the opposition is physical or in a professional environment is an advantage, My recommendation is to get a copy of the "Book of Five RIngs" by Miyamoto Musashi which will help your understanding about the necessity of continued martial arts education. PS - I spent somewhat over 30 years in practice as a student and an instructor in Aikido, so I'm a touch biased on the subject. Good luck in your career goals.
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SPC Cameron Hale
SPC Cameron Hale
>1 y
Thank you very much Grand, SP5, I will definitely be reading up and hopefully begin my understanding as a student as well. I hope you have a good one.
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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Well, to put it in perspective......I am not even Level 1 Certified.
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SGT Flight Medic
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I feel like you should do it. It's a great experience and you my find a new interest in it. One of my soldiers did not want to do level 1 at first, she enjoyed it and decided she would do level 2. Now she is wanting to do the master combative course. It can be addicting and it's great stuff to know. Also it will look good to have your mil ed as full as possible on your ERB.
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SPC Joseph Ahner
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As my instructor told me Lv 1 teaches you just enough to get your ass kicked. When I took lv 2 I found out exactly why he said that. Also you're more likely to need MACP stateside while hanging out with your buddies than you are on a battlefield.
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SPC Joseph Ahner
SPC Joseph Ahner
>1 y
Adding on to that if you can get all three levels get them. Once you get lv 3 you can be a battalion or brigade level instructor. It may not give you much in promotion points but as soon as you get your 5 you could be working for a bird colonel as a combatives instructor. As you can imagine this looks kickass.
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Cpl Justin Goolsby
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Well if your MACP is anything like the Marine Corps MCMAP, even if you're a POG it's very useful. Primarily for retention and staying competitive with your peers. You might have already decided that you're getting out after 1 enlistment. But if you plan to stay in, you need to be competitive which means high PT scores, and high martial arts belt levels.
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SGT Victoria Belbusti
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Isn't it worth promotion points? Sounds like a good reason.
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SGT Victoria Belbusti
SGT Victoria Belbusti
>1 y
They only matches us up against other females.MSG (Join to see) -
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MSG Mechanic 2nd
MSG (Join to see)
>1 y
SGT Victoria Belbusti - that is a true shame, what type of unit are you in
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SGT Victoria Belbusti
SGT Victoria Belbusti
>1 y
This was a while ago. MSG (Join to see) -
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MSG Mechanic 2nd
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SGT Victoria Belbusti - since this was awhile ago what are your experiences now
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SPC Casey Ashfield
1
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For military work, not very. Additional certifications are nice pins in your hat and good to know for combat troops.
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SPC Joseph Ahner
SPC Joseph Ahner
>1 y
Combatives ain't even worth promotion points anymore if I'm not mistaken. It's value lies in not getting your teeth kicked in if you ever get into a shitty situation.
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SPC Casey Ashfield
SPC Casey Ashfield
>1 y
I have heard both and mixes. Level I and II counted for points on my ERB. I have heard that has changed or Level I doesn't count but II does. All sorts of information.
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