Posted on Jan 2, 2015
How well are veterans organizations serving our veterans? Enough to induce active duty personnel to join when they return to civilian life?
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It seems that some veterans harbor ill will towards veterans organizations such as the American Legion and the VFW, especially among Vietnam Vets.
My wife frequently goaded me to join, but I told her that those organizations were for “real” veterans. I didn't feel that they wanted an old Adjutant hanging around. However, as the Veterans Administration was exposed as failing in their mission I was tempted to look into membership. I wanted to help veterans. After all, the sum total of my active duty service was spent supporting the troops. Why shouldn't I do the same as a veteran?
I checked out both the American Legion and the VFW posts in a neighboring community, Mission Viejo, California. I joined them and attended a couple of meetings. No one begrudged me the fact that I didn't have a CIB (Combat Infantryman Badge) and seemed to welcome my participation in their activities. Inasmuch as the VFW post was more active in Mission Viejo, I focused my efforts there. I intend on becoming more involved with the American Legion later. Visiting VA hospitals and helping collect money and supplies for the families of deployed service members has satisfied my goals. I hope to become even more involved helping recently separated veterans obtain VA benefits and look for civilian employment.
However, when I posted a question about veterans organizations to the Vietnam Veterans Group on Facebook, I was surprised to learn that not all of my brothers and sisters were similarly welcomed when they attempted to join. Hundreds responded with tales of rejection because “they hadn't fought in a 'real' war” or “had 'lost' the war”, none of which was true. (I hope you can read the text on the image of sample responses)
Ultimately, I hope that no other veterans share the experience that we Vietnam Vets faced. I hope that morale among active duty service members isn't affected by tales of scandal at the Veterans Administration. I hope that all recently separated veterans find gainful employment in a civilian job market that is suffering.
How about you?
My wife frequently goaded me to join, but I told her that those organizations were for “real” veterans. I didn't feel that they wanted an old Adjutant hanging around. However, as the Veterans Administration was exposed as failing in their mission I was tempted to look into membership. I wanted to help veterans. After all, the sum total of my active duty service was spent supporting the troops. Why shouldn't I do the same as a veteran?
I checked out both the American Legion and the VFW posts in a neighboring community, Mission Viejo, California. I joined them and attended a couple of meetings. No one begrudged me the fact that I didn't have a CIB (Combat Infantryman Badge) and seemed to welcome my participation in their activities. Inasmuch as the VFW post was more active in Mission Viejo, I focused my efforts there. I intend on becoming more involved with the American Legion later. Visiting VA hospitals and helping collect money and supplies for the families of deployed service members has satisfied my goals. I hope to become even more involved helping recently separated veterans obtain VA benefits and look for civilian employment.
However, when I posted a question about veterans organizations to the Vietnam Veterans Group on Facebook, I was surprised to learn that not all of my brothers and sisters were similarly welcomed when they attempted to join. Hundreds responded with tales of rejection because “they hadn't fought in a 'real' war” or “had 'lost' the war”, none of which was true. (I hope you can read the text on the image of sample responses)
Ultimately, I hope that no other veterans share the experience that we Vietnam Vets faced. I hope that morale among active duty service members isn't affected by tales of scandal at the Veterans Administration. I hope that all recently separated veterans find gainful employment in a civilian job market that is suffering.
How about you?
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 12
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Honestly, I have to tell you, many VFW's are waaaaayy beyond the power curve when it comes to the younger (OIF/OEF) era veterans. That's not good..
But there's a brighter side to this issue! (1) Gather a group of like-minded war veterans (2) find a Post that needs new blood - usually that means less than 15 people are showing up for monthly meetings (3) join enmasse - with money & DD-214's in hand. (4) start moving the Post in the direction your group needs to go. Here's the tricky part, there are local rules, then there are National rules and then there's the IRS rules. All have to be dealt with. The local rules are fairly simple - you vote the local rules out of existence. The National rules - not so much. The IRS rules...again, not so much. But now you have a Post that has new blood, new ideas and new motivation. Beats the heck out of trying to create a nationally recognized organization with Congressional Charter, IRS rulings and National awareness.
Meh...or you can whine and bitch and complain that the old farts won't let you play.......
This idea won't work with the Post's that are working to change to meet the needs of the younger vets. If you live in an area where there are multiple Posts - visit them all. Ignore the bar; find out what they're doing to help vets of all ages and groups, not just themselves. Are there family outings? Are there programs for everyone? Does the organization give back to the community?
But there's a brighter side to this issue! (1) Gather a group of like-minded war veterans (2) find a Post that needs new blood - usually that means less than 15 people are showing up for monthly meetings (3) join enmasse - with money & DD-214's in hand. (4) start moving the Post in the direction your group needs to go. Here's the tricky part, there are local rules, then there are National rules and then there's the IRS rules. All have to be dealt with. The local rules are fairly simple - you vote the local rules out of existence. The National rules - not so much. The IRS rules...again, not so much. But now you have a Post that has new blood, new ideas and new motivation. Beats the heck out of trying to create a nationally recognized organization with Congressional Charter, IRS rulings and National awareness.
Meh...or you can whine and bitch and complain that the old farts won't let you play.......
This idea won't work with the Post's that are working to change to meet the needs of the younger vets. If you live in an area where there are multiple Posts - visit them all. Ignore the bar; find out what they're doing to help vets of all ages and groups, not just themselves. Are there family outings? Are there programs for everyone? Does the organization give back to the community?
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SGM Matthew West
SGT (Join to see), you are correct in some of those mentalities. I will tell you that Bingo keeps my post afloat. We have two sessions a week, and there are locals that come like clock work. Other than that, we do community activities, sometimes dances, Karaoke night, and such. Of course during football season, we are usually packed with fans on Saturday and Sunday afternoons.
Getting the newer group to come in, you will be surprised if you game plan, show up on Nomination night and throw somebody's name in the hat for a position, then return on election night and vote. I have 426 or so members in my post, guess how many show up for election night? about 20......do that math, you could easily get elected with a little effort. Then, well, you got a year to start implementing your changes and make the place user friendly.
Getting the newer group to come in, you will be surprised if you game plan, show up on Nomination night and throw somebody's name in the hat for a position, then return on election night and vote. I have 426 or so members in my post, guess how many show up for election night? about 20......do that math, you could easily get elected with a little effort. Then, well, you got a year to start implementing your changes and make the place user friendly.
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SGT (Join to see)
SGM Matthew West, our post is almost completely funded by bingo too. The thing is that bingo pretty much only draws in an older demographic, and put simply it cannot be the sole source of income for the post moving into the future. Bingo isn't exactly something younger members of the community are interested in, and as such we're going to have to figure out something new to fund our post, and the sooner the better.
We're working on starting up some community projects, but put simply we don't have the man power to do much. Most of our membership isn't interested in taking an active role in the post, which is a large part of our problem. It's very frustrating when you have a clear problem with the post and you know what you need to do to fix it, but the member base's only involvement with the organization is to actively block your efforts by coming to the monthly meeting for the sole purpose to vote "no" to any new initiatives.
The few active members that are of the OIF/OEF generation are being groomed to take over some post positions, but it's going to be an uphill fight to get them voted in when we have so many members who are dead set against any kind of change.
We're working on starting up some community projects, but put simply we don't have the man power to do much. Most of our membership isn't interested in taking an active role in the post, which is a large part of our problem. It's very frustrating when you have a clear problem with the post and you know what you need to do to fix it, but the member base's only involvement with the organization is to actively block your efforts by coming to the monthly meeting for the sole purpose to vote "no" to any new initiatives.
The few active members that are of the OIF/OEF generation are being groomed to take over some post positions, but it's going to be an uphill fight to get them voted in when we have so many members who are dead set against any kind of change.
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SGM Matthew West
SGT (Join to see), good to hear you guys are trying some new stuff. I really don't know the answer, wish I did. Next time they all vote no, to your initiative, ask them what they think the post should do to prosper. When they respond with the typical "I don't know", then tell them to start being a part of the solution and not the problem. You at least are trying to help, tell them put up or shut up. I know that may seem harsh, but you appear to be a sharp guy and figure out the tactful way of putting it.
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SGT (Join to see)
SGM Matthew West, It would appear I spoke too soon. I got voted in as the Junior Vice Commander today by unanimous vote, and the nomination was completely by surprise, so perhaps my expectations were unjustly pessimistic.
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There are a lot of Cold War Era vets many of whom didn't deploy but served honorably. There seems to be a gap in AL of certain time frames such as 85-89 and post-Vietnam time frame. If you fall into one of those time frames, you are SOL. You can't join anything but AmVets but they don't have orgs everywhere.
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PO1 (Join to see)
Here's a thought - do a little research in your family history. See if anyone was in the military - a little research using an SF-180 on the National Archives can help - you may find you are eligible for membership in one of the VFW's auxiliaries.
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PV2 (Join to see)
I could probably do that. My granddaddy was a WWII vet and was in the Army of Occupation in Germany during the War. He was in the VFW in Roanoke Va.
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PO1 (Join to see)
There you go! You will need your Grand Dad's DD-214 to prove HIS eligibility..... then talk with whatever VFW Auxiliary you opt for....
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Today at the North Carolina American Legion Department my post, Post 116 received an award for their hosting of the Veterans Benefit Action Center. This was a 3.5 day event open to all veterans who had questions or concerns with the Veterans Administration.
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CPT Jack Durish
American Legion and VFW posts are no better nor worse than whatever their membership want to make of them. This members of this one appear to be going in the right direction...
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To any Marines or Corpsmen that served with Marines there is the Marine Corps League, they do not have a restriction on when you served as long as you have done more than 90 days on active duty you are eligible to join.
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I joined the VFW POST 1695 after my first tour in 2004-5. The post I joined had no bar and was completely service oriented. I was welcomed wholeheartedly and had the honor of meeting many WWII heroes including Chase Nielson, (Doolittle Raider). They put me to work right away doing funeral honor guards and community support functions and treated me like an equal, I've since moved away and haven't found a post that concentrated on service as much as drinking.
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CPT Jack Durish
When I originally posted this issue on Facebook with the Vietnam Veterans Only group, I received almost 500 responses that all sounded like yours. A few thriving posts welcoming all veterans offset by many more closing their doors because the old timers sat around drinking and swapping war stories while hiding the welcome mat.
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SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S.
I went to an American Legion in Donelson Tennessee (east of downtown Nashville) and all that was happening in there was drinking, smoking, and gambling. They were busted a few months later for the gambling (pinball machines or something like that). Haven't had an interest in joining any of the organizations other than the DAV.
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I used to belong to IAVA (Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America), but I noticed early on that they had a very liberal political leaning—rating *only* Democrats as veteran friendly before (I think it was) the 2008 elections. They based this on Republicans voting against heavily pork-laden Democrat bills that "helped" veterans.
I am a member of the VFW, but not of a local branch? unit? whatever they are called. The VFW does a lot to help vets, in my opinion.
I am a member of the VFW, but not of a local branch? unit? whatever they are called. The VFW does a lot to help vets, in my opinion.
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CPT Jack Durish
Have you ever read the story Painted Bird? Briefly, it's the tale of a Jewish boy who is placed by his parents with a Christian family in Europe during the Nazi occupation in hopes that he will survive. He did, but was tormented because he was different. He felt like a painted bird. Take a bird and paint its feathers. When you release it, it will attempt to rejoin its flock which will either drive it away or kill it because the flock no longer recognizes it. The bird recognizes them because underneath the paint, it is just like them. But this artifice prevents the flock from acknowledging it.
Ideology has become the paint that separates us. Even though we are Americans or we share the same experience of serving in the military, true ideologues on the left will shun all who do not believe as they do. I have never found the same thing true of ideologues on the right.
Ideology has become the paint that separates us. Even though we are Americans or we share the same experience of serving in the military, true ideologues on the left will shun all who do not believe as they do. I have never found the same thing true of ideologues on the right.
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SP5 Michael Rathbun
I find that in all parts of the so-called political spectrum, there are people who value abstract ideas above living human beings. I denote these as "fanatics", whether or not there is any obvious religious connection.
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Some of the Old School Veterans Organizations find it hard to transition to younger veterans. I was viewed as an outcast for the first 6 yrs i was a regular member of the AmVets, and American Legion. I joined the VFW as a veteran but quickly canceled my membership. Maybe it was just the wrong Post i tried to join , I had a bad taste in my mouth after going in these establishments. Since then i only keep my AmVets membership and I do not attend any meetings or functions. I help my fellow veterans by myself, if i see any i take them to appointments. etc. If i see a homeless vet i get him food or shelter. and a little spending money for clothes.
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SGT Justin Singleton
I am far too busy with work, school, etc. I wouldn't mind being in leadership in one of these organizations, but I just don't have the time nor the money to give up.
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PO1 (Join to see)
SGT Justin Singleton Many VFW Posts have the policy of paying the first years dues for a returning veteran. Of course, that's depending on the financial status of the organization..... As for time - pick your poison. We all have lives that have things that have to be done; classes, work, family. There are things you can do to help other veterans if for only a few hours a month. No one expects you to be able to donate weeks worth of time... A helping hand to a fellow veteran will come back to you in multiples, maybe not today, but it will come back to you.
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PFC Stephens Clark
My Father was a White hat with VFW he held a National Office. for yrs. he was Quartermaster and Vice, etc with all veterans post i.e DAV, American Legion, VFW. Moose, Amvets. etc. i grew up going to these places on a regular basis. i know the ins and outs of each one by heart. My Father is also A founding member of 3 VFW's in Ohio
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
SSG Brian Tobin - It is hard to provide input in a place where you clearly are not welcome.
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The only thing they're somewhat good at is helping veteran's file disability and compensation claims. Some organizations are better than others. Some have their own offices and employees and others allow State employees to represent their members. I worked as a Vet Rep for the Tennessee Department of Veteran's Affairs in 2005-2006 and we represented 14 service organizations (some of which included the American Legion and VFW). The problem is that there were only 6 of us representing tens of thousands of veteran's. We were so busy that it was hard to give the proper representation (and the State won't allow employees to work off the clock nor provide OT). Other organizations including the DAV, Blinded Veteran's, and Paralyzed Veteran's had their own offices with their own employees and were able to provide superior service. The DAV closed their office every Friday afternoon for mandatory employee training. I was so impressed with their service, that I am now a life member and have them as my representative on VA-related issues.
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Like many of us (based on this thread), I had a negative experience at a VFW after getting home from Iraq, and it led me to swear off organizations like that. I visited a VFW post in Chicago with my friend PO2 Sean Hannon and we were told by older veterans there that we weren't welcome. We stated that we had both deployed to Iraq, and they replied that we hadn't been to a real war, so they told us to leave. I couldn't believe it. I almost blew my top, but just left instead. This felt like veterans turning their backs on other veterans.
VSOs like the American Legion, VFW, etc. may be providing their services very well in many cases, but you can't overlook the reality that very few younger GWOT-era veterans are joining...
VSOs like the American Legion, VFW, etc. may be providing their services very well in many cases, but you can't overlook the reality that very few younger GWOT-era veterans are joining...
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CPT Jack Durish
Sad but true, a tale I read and reread many times in the response to my original posting of this topic on Facebook in the Vietnam Veterans Only group. Even more sad, they're killing AL and VFW posts with this attitude.
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PO1 (Join to see)
CPT Aaron Kletzing This type of story is an ongoing issue. Even within my own VFW Post we have WWII members who still cling to that sentiment. I can't tell you how angry it makes me when I hear such drivel from members. Anyone - and I mean ANYONE who believes such should be removed from the Post membership.... but that's not going to happen. While I honor their service I do not accept their assertion because they are wrong. You have my apologies on behalf of the VFW.
However, not all VFW's are like this. Many are waking up to the fact that the current leadership is mostly Viet Nam veterans - in their 70's. WWII vets are dying at a rate of 1200 per day. Korean War vets aren't far behind. The numbers speak for themselves.
You are eligible for membership in the VFW - though I cannot verify without a DD-214 - but I'm comfortable with my statement. You CAN join the VFW as a member-at-large without ever having to cross the threshhold of a smoky bar. You can join online - no one will tell you that you aren't eligible on the National website: http://www.vfw.org ... I did that until I found a VFW that I felt comfortable at...and then I transferred to that VFW and I am now an active member as the Post Service Officer.
However, not all VFW's are like this. Many are waking up to the fact that the current leadership is mostly Viet Nam veterans - in their 70's. WWII vets are dying at a rate of 1200 per day. Korean War vets aren't far behind. The numbers speak for themselves.
You are eligible for membership in the VFW - though I cannot verify without a DD-214 - but I'm comfortable with my statement. You CAN join the VFW as a member-at-large without ever having to cross the threshhold of a smoky bar. You can join online - no one will tell you that you aren't eligible on the National website: http://www.vfw.org ... I did that until I found a VFW that I felt comfortable at...and then I transferred to that VFW and I am now an active member as the Post Service Officer.
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I too am a Viet Nam Veteran with minimal time in country and waited a long time to join. I also am now a member of both the AL and VFW, more active with the AL but only recently joined the VFW. The reason for my waiting was because as the son of a WWII veteran with uncle's and a grand mother active in the Legion I remembered them at the bar and was not aware of the other good done by these organizations.
I know that some posts are better than others and a few are closed to anyone outside the service era of the majority of the members. I am disappointed in this but heartened that the majority of the posts are actively trying hard to support not only the members but all veterans and current active duty personnel. My own posts are also extremely active in supporting the local schools and children's organizations.
We all need to work to help identify the posts and members that have closed attitudes and open their minds and spirits to embrace the good that these organizations are doing.
I hope we see an influx of current active duty and recent veterans in all of the organizations. We need them to build for the future continue the good works.
I know that some posts are better than others and a few are closed to anyone outside the service era of the majority of the members. I am disappointed in this but heartened that the majority of the posts are actively trying hard to support not only the members but all veterans and current active duty personnel. My own posts are also extremely active in supporting the local schools and children's organizations.
We all need to work to help identify the posts and members that have closed attitudes and open their minds and spirits to embrace the good that these organizations are doing.
I hope we see an influx of current active duty and recent veterans in all of the organizations. We need them to build for the future continue the good works.
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CPT Jack Durish
Both the AL and VFW have been losing WWII Vets faster than others are joining. Some posts are closing. If we can embrace all veterans more openly and do some good, maybe we can keep these organizations alive. If not, they're not worth saving.
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Sgt Dale Cusack
Yes, I have attended too many funerals this year and know that it this is not helping the membership of these organizations. What I find even more disturbing is the number 22 that is decimating the potential membership of veteran's that need our help and comradeship more than ever. I, along with many other members in my area are reaching out to find recent discharges as well as current active duty personnel in hopes of getting them interested in our programs. It isn't easy, but I feel strongly that it is worth the time and effort to educate them on the advantages of membership. Even if they don't join right away, if the seed is planted and they see good work being done we may still get them down the road.
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CPT Jack Durish
Sgt Dale Cusack, good luck with that effort. Please let us know if you discover anything that work. There's a nonprofit group here that provides help to recent vets attending a local community college with little more than their GI Bill benefits to subsist on. I've volunteered to help distribute the aid so that I can meet them and learn what they need. Hopefully, we can then use this knowledge to help them network to find jobs and maybe induce them to join and help others.
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Sgt Dale Cusack
I live in Putnam County NY and we have a very veteran friendly county government, most of the local towns are also veteran friendly. The county has a very active Veteran's Service office headed by 2 veteran's that are both very active with the AL and VFW. The VFW service officer also has an office and is employed part time by the service office so it is a one stop shop. We also have a Joint Veteran's council set up to coordinate the efforts of all veteran's organizations which has delegates from the AL, DAV, MOPH and VFW, I may have missed an organization but all that are active in our area are represented. All of this helps us get the word out to local veteran's which helps but still we find it is not enough as we still have trouble connecting with the local veteran's.
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